Hajj..... in Mecca

Started by Darth Thor13 pages
Originally posted by Blakemore
Hawking's theory was that the universe came from an infinitely small and infinitely dense singularity which contained everything that may or may not infinitely expand its own space and time. Conclusively, we are currently in a great expansion. That much we know according to theory, which is almost universally accepted among scientists.

Yes the Big Bang Theory.

Originally posted by Blakemore
This doesn't prove the singularity was the beginning of space and time, nor does it even suggest it came from anywhere, as space and time of its "creation" has no scientific understanding, and anything claiming to be is not accepted as science. Even Kent Hovind admits he "believes" in God, not that there is any science behind it. Even you admit it.

If the singularity was the beginning of space and time then that would be a Necessary Being. If not and the singularity was dependant on something else outside of itself, then it's still a contingent being like everything else in this Universe.

Originally posted by Blakemore
When I said doesn't exist, I meant in the scientific context. All we have are beliefs.

Now, you're arguing people naturally believe in God. Debatable, but also admits it only exists in our mind.

God is the conclusion of a Necessary Being with the design aspect to life and the Universe.

The study showing we have an innate belief not only in God but also in an afterlife isn't very subjective, given it was a study that cost £1.9million, and involved 40 seperate studies in 20 different countries. That's as scientific as you can get.

What it proves is that it's natural for us to come to that Occams Razor conclusion first. But there is a logical philosophy behind it as well. And certainly such an innate belief has no evolutionary benefit or reason for being there.

^ FYI Yes I admit there's no scientific evidence for the existence of GOD. It's more down to philosophical reasoning.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ FYI Yes I admit there's no scientific evidence for the existence of GOD. It's more down to a book I like.

^

https://sites.google.com/site/innatereligion/brief-articles/children-have-innate-belief

https://www.bing.com/search?q=occam%27s+razor+theory&cvid=ae97f8a6e45a4687b30fa7f01cd3b31b&aqs=edge.2.0j69i57j0l7.8822j0j1&pglt=297&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=U531

GOD =

mass * density
-----------------
0

^ In Universe formulas don't apply to GOD.

And God said let there be light. And then there was light.

See, the big bang theory is right there in the Bible word for word.

^ Cool I guess ??

More of a coincidence really. Shocker, ancient societies understood that light is concentrated energy.

I still don't get how Abraham came to the conclusion of a moral higher power other than to scare people into obedience.

Originally posted by Blakemore
More of a coincidence really. Shocker, ancient societies understood that light is concentrated energy.

Do you think the Universe came from nothing?

Originally posted by Blakemore
I still don't get how Abraham came to the conclusion of a moral higher power other than to scare people into obedience.

Obedience to what?

Historically control was via entertainment and intoxicants. Worked for the Romans.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Do you think the Universe came from nothing?

Obedience to what?

Historically control was via entertainment and intoxicants. Worked for the Romans.

We don't know anything about how the universe came to be. It's inconclusive and may not even be worth finding until we have reason to believe such a possibility. However, consider the following. Once we find out something before the great expansion, what's not to say that was the beginning and then there was not something before that? And then before that. Do you see how it's a nonsensical argument because there will always be the possibility of something that could happen before.

God only exists in the margins of science. We don't know before the big bang, that's all we can conclude.

Obedience to not use entertainment and toxins. Duh. 😛

Originally posted by Darth Thor
^ In Universe formulas don't apply to GOD.

What created God or Allah? Same principle of causality applies to your mythical deity too

Originally posted by Blakemore
and may not even be worth finding until we have reason to believe such a possibility.

You only have a short life. So it's probably wise to use some of it to meditate and reflect on the nature of your existence and the Universe itself.

Originally posted by Blakemore
However, consider the following. Once we find out something before the great expansion, what's not to say that was the beginning and then there was not something before that? And then before that. Do you see how it's a nonsensical argument because there will always be the possibility of something that could happen before.

That's precisely the paradox that the Existence of GOD solves.

Originally posted by Blakemore

Obedience to not use entertainment and toxins. Duh. 😛

Why though?

Originally posted by carthage
What created God or Allah? Same principle of causality applies to your mythical deity too

Necessary Being would have to exist outside of time and space.

So no, principle of causality doesn't apply.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
You only have a short life. So it's probably wise to use some of it to meditate and reflect on the nature of your existence and the Universe itself.

That's precisely the paradox that the Existence of GOD solves.

Why though?

Necessary Being would have to exist outside of time and space.

So no, principle of causality doesn't apply.

Going to disagree DT, Life is not something to meditate on, its something to experience and live.

Originally posted by Old Man Whirly!
Going to disagree DT, Life is not something to meditate on, its something to experience and live.

I said it'd be wise to use "some of it" on meditating and reflecting. Not that we completely do away with living in the moment.

Because it's that aspect of us that differentiates our experiences and living from other animals.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Because it's that aspect of us that differentiates our experiences and living from other animals.

Also speech, thumbs, etc., and spoiler alert: it's not from a special creation. It's evolution.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I said it'd be wise to use "some of it" on meditating and reflecting. Not that we completely do away with living in the moment.

I think it's fine, too, so long as one doesn't spend such contemplation pretending to know things that no one could possibly know: aka like much religious dogma.

Could it be that the big bang is just a white hole?

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Also speech, thumbs, etc., and spoiler alert: it's not from a special creation. It's evolution.

Those aren't mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
I think it's fine, too,

👆

Originally posted by Blakemore
Could it be that the big bang is just a white hole?

You can speculate on what it is, but either way there would need to be a Necessary Being. In this case that being would be a white hole. Although saying A white hole suggests there were multiple white holes before the Universe existed.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
Those aren't mutually exclusive.

If you're talking about special creation and evolution, they absolutely are mutually exclusive.

We have hundreds of thousands of examples of evolution, zero for special creation.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
If you're talking about special creation and evolution, they absolutely are mutually exclusive.

We have hundreds of thousands of examples of evolution, zero for special creation.

Well firstly, evolution itself is special and still results in the same creation. So there's that.

But assuming you mean the miracle creation of one man, that isn't mutually exclusive with evolution same as a one off virgin birth isn't mutually exclusive with how life is normally conceived every day.