Hajj..... in Mecca

Originally posted by Darth Thor
No, our DNA shows our origins are from very few initial humans, most probably 2. One of those above studies was by evolutionists as well.

It's also odd you claim you're not christian -- I know, but doesn't Islam accept the old testament as fact as well?

So you're saying Adam and Eve existed? Was there a deity that created Adam in his own image out of dust and Eve gave Adam the fruit which is why we should suffer and blame women for everything wrong in the world?

Originally posted by Blakemore
"most probably"

I mean that's what the science indicates.

Originally posted by Blakemore
It's also odd you claim you're not christian -- I know, but doesn't Islam accept the old testament as fact as well?

No, those books don't even claim to be written by GOD. In fact we have no idea who wrote them. Most likely massively changed and corrupted over the centuries. So we take the Quran's take only.

Originally posted by Blakemore
So you're saying Adam and Eve existed? Was there a deity that created Adam in his own image out of dust and Eve gave Adam the fruit which is why we should suffer and blame women for everything wrong in the world?

Muslims don't believe in Original Sin. We're only accountable for ourselves. Not for what Adam and Eve did.

We also don't believe eating the fruit was the worst possible sin or something. It just showed free will on Adam and Eve's part, the willingness to disobey GOD showed they were ready for Earth.

So before we were made out of dust, there was life before Earth... created by God...

Look, you're an intelligent person. You know creationism is bollocks, right?

Originally posted by Blakemore

Look, you're an intelligent person. You know creationism is bollocks, right?

More bollocks than Random Chance?

There's plenty of intellectuals who buy into the Grand Design idea. I believe even Einstein did (although he didn't buy into Religion itself).

Evolution isn't random chance. It says that lives are dependent on each other in an ecosystem.

If you're talking about abiogenesis, I'll refer to Dawkins who says not only can we not determine what the "creator" is, it isn't even worth thinking about.

Originally posted by Blakemore
Evolution isn't random chance. It says that lives are dependent on each other in an ecosystem.

That doesnt explain how life exists. Even 1 cell is enormously complex. More complex than your I-Phone.

The Universe is also in pretty perfect Order.

The complexity can be written down mathematically.

I think it takes a stretch of the imagination to conclude some magical being made everything.

Originally posted by Blakemore
The complexity can be written down mathematically.

Through mutations?

That's a lot of coincidences (like an infinite amount) aligning perfect mathematics.

Originally posted by Blakemore
I think it takes a stretch of the imagination to conclude some magical being made everything.

Not when you realise you being here is a miracle. As is the Sun and the Moon and the Earth.

Again, all can be calculated mathematically.

Your god only exists within the margins of science.

Originally posted by Blakemore
Again, all can be calculated mathematically.

That sounds like a very unrealistic talking point.

Would you believe my phone came about by random chance (because I claimed it was provable mathematically), or would you assume it was designed by an intellect ?

Originally posted by Darth Thor

Muslims don't believe in Original Sin. We're only accountable for ourselves. Not for what Adam and Eve did.

Yeah, oddly enough if you go down the rabitt hole of Islam it is much more straightforward and less idiotic and convoluted than Christianity.

But it still apparently requires the denial of the facts of reality of our origins, ie evolution.

Hajj Pajj 😆

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Yeah, oddly enough if you go down the rabitt hole of Islam it is much more straightforward and less idiotic and convoluted than Christianity.

I wish your pal Sam Harris would acknowledge that !

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That sounds like a very unrealistic talking point.

Would you believe my phone came about by random chance (because I claimed it was provable mathematically), or would you assume it was designed by an intellect ?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
I wish your pal Sam Harris would acknowledge that !

He absolutely does. I've heard him say it. What makes you think he doesn't?

Originally posted by Darth Thor
That sounds like a very unrealistic talking point.

Would you believe my phone came about by random chance (because I claimed it was provable mathematically), or would you assume it was designed by an intellect ?

Ah, yes. The Watchmaker Analogy. Answer me this: Do watches (or in this case phones) operate the same way biology does? Do watches or phones reproduce and pass on DNA?

The answer is no, so it's a false analogy. A blatantly stupid analogy. But you apologist types don't care how terrible your logic is, you just keep repeating the same fallacies and sucking in the gullible.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
Ah, yes. The Watchmaker Analogy. Answer me this: Do watches (or in this case phones) operate the same way biology does? Do watches or phones reproduce and pass on DNA?

The answer is no, so it's a false analogy. A blatantly stupid analogy. But you apologist types don't care how terrible your logic is, you just keep repeating the same fallacies and sucking in the gullible.

They dont for now because theyre not designed to do so. But thats not out of the realm of possibility given how robotics are advancing.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
He absolutely does. I've heard him say it. What makes you think he doesn't?

Ive heard him say is Islam is barbaric hence why Muslims are (or words to that effect). Which is stupid given all the violent stuff in the Bible.

He also laughed off the idea that Muhammad was peaceful (clearly implying he was some warlord). Thats only true if you throw
historical context completely out. So hes generally not very educated or objective on a subject hes clearly obsessed with.

Originally posted by Patient_Leech
A blatantly stupid analogy. But you apologist types don't care how terrible your logic is, you just keep repeating the same fallacies and sucking in the gullible.

Also if you are being more intelligent than me on the subject, then surely you can do so without throwing out insults.

Originally posted by Darth Thor
They dont for now because theyre not designed to do so. But thats not out of the realm of possibility given how robotics are advancing.

😂

So you're drawing an analogy on what *may* happen in the future?

And supposing it *does* happen, that's still an evolution of technology that didn't happen over night.

One step lead to another step and another step, etc..

It's not a spontaneous creation. 😂