Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Otherworld was a conduit for the power he had amassed through his city. The Multiverse burning away? It would have been the energy he had stored.Loki describing it as an un-making Universal fire doesn't mean that it can do no better than destroy a Universe in regards to power. In literally the next few panels he points out how Surtur would destroy the Multiverse. The word creation was used in another scene, Surtur also pointed out that he had amassed enough power to destroy the Multiverse. Could it do so on it's own? No, his fire would just burn everything in this Universe away and have nowhere to go, but Otherworld provided room for his flame to expand and it would until nothing was left. This is a distinction worth noting but when it comes to Odin, he negated all that energy in it's totality.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
^Apart from narrative hyperbole, those Elder Gods didn't really have many uber feats iirc.The universe-stuffing-in-a-box feat is the only feat which one could use to argue Legion being above skyfathers imo.
We don't see skyfathers do so, regardless if its due to lack of measure in power, or outside its authority.
Originally posted by nwg202heh I didn't know know about this
The only "feat " that the elder gods had was that Dormmamu, Hela, Satannish, Blackheart and Mephisto were scared of them.Pretty sure they were uber though to have that group react the way they did.
They where far beyond the X-Men to deal with, and their presence alone did irreparable damage to reality upon release from Limbo.
A far larger and more powerful contingent of Hell Lords were obviously very worried at the coming of the Serpent. And Mephisto with the crown of the Serpent (Forged from Loki's fear and a small fraction of the Serpent's fear power) would have gained enough power to stomp all opposing Hell Lords, take the throne of Satan, and bring hell not just to Earth but everywhere.
Gillen showed everyone from Cytorrak to Shuma-Gorath etc. as demonic Hell Lords in #627.
@nwg202: How is expressing surprise at the fact that Witchfire wielded the Bloodstones somehow indicative that they were deathly afraid of a force that was apparently inferior to Legion?
@"Id": The Bloodtones appeared to the be the main focus in Illyana's war on the Elder Deities. Hell, iirc she almost spent the first half of the 3rd New Mutant Series searching for them. After killing the gods, Legion dissolved the Beatrice amulet and returned the stones to her:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2053440-3.jpg
@Rage: Wasn't Mephisto's focus on the Fear Lords?
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
@nwg202: How is expressing surprise at the fact that Witchfire wielded the Bloodstones somehow indicative that they were deathly afraid of a force that was apparently inferior to Legion?@"Id": The Bloodtones appeared to the be the main focus in Illyana's war on the Elder Deities. Hell, iirc she almost spent the first half of the 3rd New Mutant Series searching for them. After killing the gods, Legion dissolved the Beatrice amulet and returned the stones to her:
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/10/103201/2053440-3.jpg@Rage: Wasn't Mephisto's focus on the Fear Lords?
Well I was trying to look at it logically.
Belasco was their peer, he had a seat that table. Witchfire his daughter certainly didn't look intimidated of being in their presence. She even demanded them to stay away from Limbo and that she inherit her dad's seat along side them.
The way she spoke of the elder gods gave you the impression the medalion was some sort of super weapon beyond the level of power that current group had. It wasn't just plain surprise on their faces. They knew that medalion contained power. Witchfire even says it out loud. "Power that you, my colleagues do indeed recognize." She also addressed them as peers....
Legion just blinked them out of existence without much effort.
Magik normally won't back down from anyone especially in Limbo. She wouldn't back down from anyone in that group. A weaker Magik already talked to them like peers as well during the Archenemy saga. They listened to the being called magik. They followed her into battle. She usually faces opponents like doc strange, demon Colossus, amora, etc.. with a smile on her face.
She didn't even bother challenging the elder gods, she knew that only legion could stop them. The soul sword wouldn't cut it vs the elder gods. It would harm the people at that table.
The elder gods were also the masters of Belasco.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus👆
A far larger and more powerful contingent of Hell Lords were obviously very worried at the coming of the Serpent. And Mephisto with the crown of the Serpent (Forged from Loki's fear and a small fraction of the Serpent's fear power) would have gained enough power to stomp all opposing Hell Lords, take the throne of Satan, and bring hell not just to Earth but everywhere.Gillen showed everyone from Cytorrak to Shuma-Gorath etc. as demonic Hell Lords in #627.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
@Rage: Wasn't Mephisto's focus on the Fear Lords?
The Fear Lords would have bent over for him but it was specifically said that he'd take the throne of Hell and wreck all the other Hell Lords who stood in his way after.
And as we saw in the previous JiM, he considers a lot of powerful and potent demons Hell Lords vying for control of the throne.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusWhen you look at it in the way that Mephisto is already one of the most powerful among them... and give him any sort of boost in power...
The Fear Lords would have bent over for him but it was specifically said that he'd take the throne of Hell and wreck all the other Hell Lords who stood in his way after.And as we saw in the previous JiM, he considers a lot of powerful and potent demons Hell Lords vying for control of the throne.
Meh, either way you look at it, Dormammu being scared of anyone is retarded as shit.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
When you look at it in the way that Mephisto is already one of the most powerful among them... and give him any sort of boost in power...Meh, either way you look at it, Dormammu being scared of anyone is retarded as shit.
Yes, Mephisto is one of the most powerful among them but it was made abundantly clear that no one would make any sort of play for the throne of Satan because the other Hell Lords (There were like hundreds of them, all of the demonic entities seen from Marvel at different points shoe-horned in) would f*ck them up for making a go at it.
There was like almost a dozen Hell Lords on Mephisto's level there from what I remember but with the crown -continuously amping his power- him succeeding was a certainty and that implies an immense and overwhelming boost. We all know at least half the arrogant assholes there wouldn't bow to Mephisto's rule and it was stated that any who dared oppose him would be destroyed.
Not to mention Mephisto told Nightmare earlier that taking on the Serpent in combat was not only stupid but suicidal.
Anyways, it's pretty clear that the Serpent would pretty much f*ck stomp any Hell Lord be they Mephisto, Dormammu, Cytorrak or whatever. Doesn't help that he feeds on fear, terror and such with no apparent upper limit.
My main point from all of this was that while getting the attention of 7 Hell Lords while is commendable for the "Elder Gods", it doesn't in itself put one above someone like Odin.
^Don't remember crown failing. Not the Fear Lords but the power of terror the crown would feed to Mephisto.
To summarize: Mephisto gets crown, Fear Lords bend over backwards because the portion of power Mephisto gives them from the crown would be more than sufficient. Mephisto stomps any uppity Hell Lords, takes over Satan's throne, unites Hell, and unleashes it everywhere.
JiM last issue was freaking great, you're completely whack.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
ermm
Which part do you disagree with? Based on how the Hell Lords indirectly stack up to the Serpents power, they should get wrecked in a stand off with him imho. Like you said, Mephisto is among one of the most powerful and he considers it suicidal. The implication of that issue if nothing else is that he's way too much for anyone of them take on solo.
Didn't say it made the most sense, Mephisto in his realm (Excluding his lower showings), Dormammu etc. should be around Odin level and Odin -geared out with Ragnarok and armor which would give him the win over them but still- sealed the Serpent easy enough after wiping the planet that came before Earth clean of life (Might be an explanation that the Serpent was weakened cause of this).
There might be a possibility that the serpent was stronger than when he first faced Odin. When he knew Odin was coming for him, he sealed his worthy, pissed his pants, then got owned. When he came in FI he seemed more confident saying he could "slaughter Odin". Not much more than talk without the feats to prove it though unfortunately.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusMostly him just utterly stomping them. And him beating Dormammu at all for that matter.
Which part do you disagree with? Based on how the Hell Lords indirectly stack up to the Serpents power, they should get wrecked in a stand off with him imho. Like you said, Mephisto is among one of the most powerful and he considers it suicidal. The implication of that issue if nothing else is that he's too much for anyone of them take on solo.Didn't say it made the most sense, Mephisto in his realm (Excluding his lower showings), Dormammu etc. should be around Odin level and Odin -geared out with Ragnarok and armor which would give him the win over any of them but still- sealed the Serpent easy enough after wiping the planet that came before Earth clean of life (Might be an explanation that the Serpent was weakened cause of this).
That's what I took it as, solo. As in, the Hell Lords weren't all gathered in hell like they were previously. Had Mephisto usurped the throne, there wouldn't have been an entire army gathered at that precise time to challenge him, nor would there have been anyone really more powerful than him with any boost to directly challenge him.
Save possibly Dormammu, but he's really not "into it" as much as every other demon.
It doesn't make sense.
Dormammu is Odin level though, and he's certainly more powerful than Odin before he merged with his brothers to form the Odin Force... who easily smashed the Serpent.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Mostly him just utterly stomping them. And him beating Dormammu at all for that matter.That's what I took it as, solo. As in, the Hell Lords weren't all gathered in hell like they were previously. Had Mephisto usurped the throne, there wouldn't have been an entire army gathered at that precise time to challenge him, nor would there have been anyone really more powerful than him with any boost to directly challenge him.
Save possibly Dormammu, but he's really not "into it" as much as every other demon.It doesn't make sense.
Dormammu is Odin level though, and he's certainly more powerful than Odin before he merged with his brothers to form the Odin Force... who easily smashed the Serpent.
Disagree if you want, I think the implications were quite clear that the Serpent is above Hell Lords. At least a good deal above someone like Mephisto who was presented as a peer to those assembled from what I remember.
Fair enough I guess, but the way the scene was presented wasn't implying some sly take over. Once he'd amassed enough power, he'd come and beat up whoever stood in his way. And the throne of Satan from what I remember wasn't implied to boost your power, it's symbolic. Mephisto would have to keep all the other Hell Lords in line which like I said implies immense and overwhelming power.
Wasn't Odin already an old man (Way after the supposed merger) with his brothers nowhere to be seen by the time he beat the Serpent? If that origin even counts in Fraction's continuity which I seriously doubt it does. Odin's older brothers were his younger brothers, Bor's death not at Loki's hands etc. a bunch of stuff didn't fit into continuity. Fraction and Gillen tried to explain this with in story retcon explanations. Gods have stories not histories or something of that sort, emphasized by Loki literally retconning the Serpent's history for a weakness by using the Shadow of Twilight.
