Obama must go!

Originally posted by dadudemon
Almost. They'd be cutting themselves out of tons of Fed Programs and they'd still have to pay taxes. Their main push is that they can be, easily, economically independent of the US so they say they don't need those government programs.

That's the big thing I'm wondering about. Literally almost every major state, county, and city-run organization from schools to public works relies on some pretty major Federal funding. There's also the fact that the move to privatize things like prisons has only been accomplished by diverting Federal funds as well.

It would also be interesting to see what happens to college enrollment considering that many students are only able to attend because of the Pell Grant. I don't foresee this going too well.

No state is going to secede, so it's moot.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Almost. They'd be cutting themselves out of tons of Fed Programs and they'd still have to pay taxes. Their main push is that they can be, easily, economically independent of the US so they say they don't need those government programs.

That's actually a bit more disturbing than I thought. This secession crap seems more serious than I thought. I thought it was funny, at first.

Originally posted by Jim Colyer
I am listening to Sean Hannity on radio. Hannity is in New York. He says it is an absolute disaster. The people on Staten Island have no food and no gas. They have no heat. With cold weather coming, they fear for their lives. Some are eating out of dumpsters. Some are defecating in hallways.

Hannity is highly critical of Obama. He says "Obama came, he saw, he left." Getting his picture with Governor Christie was just another photo op for the food stamp president. He got back on the plane and resumed campaigning, possibly to keep an appointment with Beyonce or Jay-Z.

I fear what another 4 with Obama will do to this country. I fear there may be civil war.

SEAN HANNITY http://www.hannity.com

😆 😆 😆

Originally posted by Omega Vision
The good news is that it's doubtful to grow any larger, and even if it were to double in size it would still struggle to get major representation in the state legislature, let alone in Congress.

Permanently. sneer

Texas now has the 25,000+ signatures required to get a response from the White House:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/white-house-may-respond-texas-secession-petition-212328772--election.html

Obama cannot approve state secession, however. Don't get your hopes up.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Almost. They'd be cutting themselves out of tons of Fed Programs and they'd still have to pay taxes. Their main push is that they can be, easily, economically independent of the US so they say they don't need those government programs.

But if they still want to use US currency (backed by the full faith and credit of the federal government) they obviously don't believe they're actually capable of economic independence. I mean the form of secession you describe would make Texas into a complete parasite on the US. If any state did secede I'm fairly certain the federal government would immediately sever all ties to it.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But if they still want to use US currency (backed by the full faith and credit of the federal government) they obviously don't believe they're actually capable of economic independence.

While true, other countries besides the US use the US Dollar.

http://www.sporcle.com/games/starkkt/countries-that-use-the-us-dollar--as-their-currency

And some currencies are "tied" into the US dollar.

However, that does not bar them from creating their own internal currency: it is just not going to ever be independent of the US Dollar.

I could extend your point a bit further and say that no country in the world is independent of the US Dollar: we live in a world economy. The 2008 Recession proved that.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I mean the form of secession you describe would make Texas into a complete parasite on the US.

Actually, it would vastly reduce the drain on federal funding: the exact opposite. They would have to pay their fair share of taxes for FBI services and the like.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If any state did secede I'm fairly certain the federal government would immediately sever all ties to it.

That would be a very poor diplomatic choice that is more reminiscent of a petty tantrum than an actual legitimate response. I'm sure image relations for the White House would advise against that, at the worst.

Originally posted by Mindset
No state is going to secede, so it's moot.

Originally posted by Mindset
No state is going to secede, so it's moot.

No one is going to use a phone jammer on cities come tomorrow or nuke Mecca most likely; this is a discussion forum, no?

Originally posted by dadudemon
\

That would be a very poor diplomatic choice that is more reminiscent of a petty tantrum than an actual legitimate response. I'm sure image relations for the White House would advise against that, at the worst.

I don't think the Federal government would break ties though--I think the Federal government would reestablish control through military force if necessary.

Originally posted by Ascendancy
No one is going to use a phone jammer on cities come tomorrow or nuke Mecca most likely; this is a discussion forum, no?

This secession shit is pretty hilarious.

Originally posted by dadudemon
However, that does not bar them from creating their own internal currency: it is just not going to ever be independent of the US Dollar.

But that's not in the plan. I'm pointing out that if they're trying to puff up how independent their economy is staying attached to the US dollar suggests their real level of confidence.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Actually, it would vastly reduce the drain on federal funding: the exact opposite.

A group that demand to both be independent of your laws and get your military assistance is a parasite. There is more to life than cash.

Originally posted by dadudemon
That would be a very poor diplomatic choice that is more reminiscent of a petty tantrum than an actual legitimate response. I'm sure image relations for the White House would advise against that, at the worst.

I doubt they would continue to provide any kind of support to a state that succeeded. Secession is such a petty tantrum in and of itself that cutting off the state from federal assistance seems like a very reasonable time out.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
But that's not in the plan.

We don't know that. It is one of the options, post secession, that will be considered. We just can't know if they choose to or choose not to go that route until the time occurs.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I'm pointing out that if they're trying to puff up how independent their economy is staying attached to the US dollar suggests their real level of confidence.

It seems pretty confident, then. Dozens of countries can't be wrong who directly depend on the dollar for their currency or indirectly because it is backed by US currency. No modern country is completely independent of the US Dollar, as your point implies.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
A group that demand to both be independent of your laws and get your military assistance is a parasite. There is more to life than cash.

I do not consider the FBI to be "military assistance" especially if they are having to pay a tax for that service. Consider an "independent" Texas use of the FBI like every other nations use of Interpol: except the FBI would be much more effective haha!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
I doubt they would continue to provide any kind of support to a state that succeeded.

I doubt that all support would be cut off, especially if the state is still willing to pay the taxes associated with that service, if a state seceded. Mostly because it is just a petty knee-jerk reaction if a state secedes. It is likely that:

1. No state will secede in the next decade or two.
2. If a state does successfully secede, the US Government would have been in negations with that state and an agreement would have been reached long before the state successfully seceded.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Secession is such a petty tantrum in and of itself that cutting off the state from federal assistance seems like a very reasonable time out.

I wouldn't call it a petty tantrum when they have been talking about it for decades and "serious law" was on the books before the results of this election.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Pretty sure the whole point of the end of the Civil War was that as a rule secession isn't a viable, legal option for any state.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the whole point of the end of the Civil War.

Do you think the only way to secede from the US is by violent uprising?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I don't think the Federal government would break ties though--I think the Federal government would reestablish control through military force if necessary.

I see: you do think the only way to secede is by violence.

I don't and neither do most of the secessioners.

Originally posted by dadudemon

Do you think the only way to secede from the US is by violent uprising?

I see: you do think the only way to secede is by violence.

I don't and neither do most of the secessioners.

"Legal" secession simply won't happen in the foreseeable future.

You guys know that the whole secession thing happens every election, yeah? Media storm ftw.

Originally posted by Digi
You guys know that the whole secession thing happens every election, yeah? Media storm ftw.

Not like this, however. Last election, there wasn't this much whining.

Lemne rephrase: there wasn't this much official

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Realistically, yes.

"Legal" secession simply won't happen in the foreseeable future.

I agree to both...sort of. I think that a peaceful secession is possible.