SS4 Goku vs. SS3 Gotenks & Full Unlocked Potential Gohan

Started by Demonic Phoenix5 pages
Demonic Phoenix Senior Member

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero

Come to think of it, the massive jump 17 got as Super 17 must have been really wonky too... I mean 2 17's, less powerful than an Acended SSJ (Vegeta during Imperfect Cell Saga) combined to make a being more powerful than Gold Oozaru Baby... That multiplier is F**ked up!
To be fair, Super 17 could absorb energy, and he had absorbed all of SSJ4 Goku's attacks, which allowed him to become stronger than Goku. But yeah, Super 17 iirc was too powerful for Goku as a Super Saiyan, which meant 17 had gotten a massive boost.

carver9 Senior Member

@Galan...

I wouldn't say Vegeto was/is around Super Saiyan 4 level during GT, that's too far up. I would say SS 2 Goku could give him a fight and SS3 would stomp him.

People are also forgetting the scene where Goku power level (in base form) was being read on the mecha planet and the machine couldn't even get a true reading on his level of power...his base form was off the charts.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
If I were to hazard a guess, given that Omega Shenron was effortlessly trouncing both Goku & Vegeta simultaneously, and the only technique of any threat to him from either fighter was the Universal Spirit Bomb (Which is a huge game ender anyway), and the fuison doing a complete 180 to Gogeta effortlessly trouncing Omega... I would say that the PL x PL is fairly consistent... Perhaps only slightly more, perhaps PLx2 x PLx2?

It's really guesswork at that point, because we don;t know what the SSJ4 multiplier is over SSJ3, nor do we know just how much stronger Omega was over Syn Shenron. That and, the only comparables we ever really got came from Rildo and the Cell/Frieza fight.

Gogeta really did dominate Omega so effortlessly that it made him [Omega] look pathetic-- and the fact that Gogeta could have killed Omega with only 2 blasts is even more astonishing. You're right though, the GT fusion multiplier was likely > the PLxPL value given to fusions in Z.

Yeah, all we really know is that Goku was, for all intents and purposes, several hundred times more powerful in GT than he was in Z, yet his SSJ4 transformation was still so powerful that he was literally in awe of it. Crazy.

Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Come to think of it, the massive jump 17 got as Super 17 must have been really wonky too... I mean 2 17's, less powerful than an Acended SSJ (Vegeta during Imperfect Cell Saga) combined to make a being more powerful than Gold Oozaru Baby... That multiplier is F**ked up!
Haxxed energy absorption, ftw!

Demonic Phoenix Senior Member

Originally posted by carver9
@Galan...

I wouldn't say Vegeto was/is around Super Saiyan 4 level during GT, that's too far up. I would say SS 2 Goku could give him a fight and SS3 would stomp him.

People are also forgetting the scene where Goku power level (in base form) was being read on the mecha planet and the machine couldn't even get a true reading on his level of power...his base form was off the charts.

We don't have much to go on as far as comparing SSJ4 Goku and Vegito goes. For all we know, Vegito could be > GT SSJ3 Goku, but inferior to SSJ4 Goku, due to the huge gap between SSJ3 & SSJ4. So all we can do is speculate as to how GT Goku & Vegito compare.

Galan's point still stands though. Vegito is the only dude in DBZ that could hope to put up a fight against SSJ4 Goku, simply because Vegito was far and away the most powerful character in DBZ, and Super Buu w/ Gohan absorbed (the second most powerful character) was confirmed to be weaker than Super Baby Vegeta.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by carver9
@Galan...

I wouldn't say Vegeto was/is around Super Saiyan 4 level during GT, that's too far up. I would say SS 2 Goku could give him a fight and SS3 would stomp him.

I didn't say Vegito would be able to defeat Goku. He's just the only character who *might*(doubtfully so) be able to give Goku a mediocre fight-- and he was far and away the most powerful being in DBZ-proper... By a HUGE margin.

Demonic Phoenix Senior Member

Sniped you. estahuh

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

sneer

Demonic Phoenix Senior Member

Twice.

biscuits

NemeBro Senior Member

GT is noncanon garbage.

Powerscaling SSJ4 off of what the canon manga dictates is retarded. Only feats matter.

Stop it.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

I sincerely hope that post wasn't directed at me. Clearly GT is non-canon, but that doesn't make the comparisons I used here invalid. srsly

As a base-level Saiyan, Goku=Rildo>Majin Buu>>>Frieza/Cell. Fact. As a SSJ1, Goku's power then increased "a hundred fold"-- thus Goku was over 100x more powerful than Majin Buu as a SSJ1. Fact. As I stated, all of the other multipliers referenced are just guess-timations that are based on what was formerly regarded as canon in Z. Like I also mentioned, said multipliers are likely drastic underestimations anyway. /shrug

NemeBro Senior Member

What GT has to say about Majin Buu means exactly dick.

Darkstorm Zero Master of all Decepticons

Originally posted by NemeBro
GT is noncanon garbage.

Powerscaling SSJ4 off of what the canon manga dictates is retarded. Only feats matter.

Stop it.

Nobody claimed GT to be canon outside of itself...

Considering it was based on Z, no. Feats are important, but are not the only thing.

How bout no? 😛

Originally posted by NemeBro
What GT has to say about Majin Buu means exactly dick.

That was just.... 🙄

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by NemeBro
What GT has to say about Majin Buu means exactly dick.
Ridiculous.

Astner The Ghost Who Walks

The problem is that's the original series and GT doesn't come together well.

On one hand you can argue that super saiyan four Goku would be more powerful than Gohan because of the scaling. Rhildo being at par with Buu for instance.

But at the other hand Goku should never be able to become more powerful than Gohan because Gohan had a greater potential and had it unlocked.

NemeBro Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
Ridiculous.
Entirely true.

Would you say Old Man Logan would kill 615 Hulk because he did so to that verse's Hulk in his (Not canon to 616) own story?

Astner The Ghost Who Walks

Originally posted by NemeBro
Entirely true.

Would you say Old Man Logan would kill 615 Hulk because he did so to that verse's Hulk in his (Not canon to 616) own story?


What does that have to with whether or not Goku's statement is accurate or not?

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Astner
The problem is that's the original series and GT doesn't come together well.

On one hand you can argue that super saiyan four Goku would be more powerful than Gohan because of the scaling. Rhildo being at par with Buu for instance.

But at the other hand Goku should never be able to become more powerful than Gohan because Gohan had a greater potential and had it unlocked.

Elder Kai stated that Goku's "true potential"(ie. SSJ4) wouldn't be unlocked until they pulled his tail back out. So yeah, GT pretty much gave the middle finger to Gohan's potential surpassing Goku's.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Entirely true.

Would you say Old Man Logan would kill 615 Hulk because he did so to that verse's Hulk in his (Not canon to 616) own story?

Poor analogy. GT did not take place in a separate/divergent universe from Z-- it was intended to have occurred in the SAME universe, with the SAME characters. Just because GT isn't canon to Z from a manga standpoint, doesn't change the writer intention. That said, GT clearly intended for Goku to be [a LOT] more powerful than he was during Z. Hundreds of times more powerful, in fact.

NemeBro Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
Poor analogy. GT did not take place in a separate/divergent universe from Z-- it was intended to have occurred in the SAME universe. Just because GT isn't canon to Z from a manga standpoint, doesn't change the fact that the writers of GT were obviously using Z as their main reference-- and they blatantly intended Goku to be [a LOT] more powerful than he was during Z.
Both the anime and GT mean exactly nothing when talking about the characters from the manga.

They could intend GT Goku to be whatever the **** they want to, writer intention is irrelevant.

And let me correct you: They were using the Z ANIME as their reference. Anime =/= Manga.

Not that any of this matters, by feats SSJ4 Goku is both relativistic and stronger than Goku physically, so would easily win.

But sorry, I'm right, you're wrong, too bad, so sad.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Sorry, but the only part of your post that is correct is the part where you said that Goku wins.

Everything else (including your horrid analogies) border on ridiculous. Again, GT was based exclusively on Z-- same characters, same universe, same timeline, etc. GT being non-canon to the DBZ manga (which I've never argued, btw) has nothing to do with the fact that in GT, Goku was intended to be VASTLY stronger than he was in Z. Once more: base-level Goku=Rildo>Majin Buu>>>Frieza/Cell. SSJ1 Goku was "a hundred fold" more powerful than base-level Goku-- thus SSJ1 Goku was over 100x more powerful than Buu as of GT. Those are all FACTS. End of story.

Don't argue just to argue.

NemeBro Senior Member

What Goku was intended to be by the writers of the GT anime have no relevance towards the characters within the canon manga.

Are you trolling? This isn't that hard to grasp.