Avengers vs Death Eaters

Originally posted by omgchos
It's not a positive if it was made as a counterclaim to the original statement. The only argument ive heard in the way of armor blacking AK was the graveyard scene and it wasnt AK. And you also have to look at the fact that many other spells are going to be used and i dont think thor is fast enough if he gets bumrushed by a lot of them to block with mjolnir. And hulk almost cant help being hit by most spells due to his size. So unless thor and iron mans armor blocks any and all spells, which goes toward this argument it becomes a one sided fight. It has to be looked at from a standpoint of what spells actually hit and even in the books, no matter what a person was wearing, almost 9/10 it would go through he clothing and only effect the person it targeted. The other 1/10 would be things like feindfire, sectumsempra and such, which just plain damage a body.

it's not really a counterclaim as the pro-potter side just simply disregarded the fact that the heroes wore armor and the books showed that the AK can be deflected off solid objects, IMO. Bur w/e /shrug.

Counterclaim or no, absence of proof is not proof of absence. Neither side (due to book "showings" being excluded) can prove one way or the other, thus we cannor debate from either position. Best to debate using both to move the debate forward.

Stips indicate that the initiative would be at the side of the Avengers here. They decide the when and where and the DEs (who are 30 at most according to the vids shown) have a lot of ground to cover and a lot of cover is given to the more agile members of the Avengers. They have stealth, surprise and the advantage of range and more efficient weaponry (wands are clunky weapons IMO).

This isn't a field combat situation. This is close quarters + within a structue combat w/c will hinder wizard's LOS with their wands. Against trained combatants (save for IM and Hulk) with far more field battle experience than a bunch of sadistic wand slingers (who is without their leader no less) who are used to standing face to face at close range when wand dueling but prolly never encontered anything beyond that. This is even when ignroing the blatant no-limits fallacy (w/c, btw, is even more highly debatable than armor deflecting curses) that the AK would work on Hulk and Thor.

Originally posted by omgchos
Hiss spell passes where the book is already when hermione sends shit flying as a distraction, and inadvertently sends the diadem flying. Or she just plain missed. Either way it wasnt AK.

Yeah, watched it again. Looks like he shot AK at point blank and missed.... O_O then Hermione shot at him and hit a book sending stuff flying in the air.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
it's not really a counterclaim as the pro-potter side just simply disregarded the fact that the heroes wore armor and the books showed that the AK can be deflected off solid objects, IMO. Bur w/e /shrug.

Counterclaim or no, absence of proof is not proof of absence. Neither side (due to book "showings" being excluded) can prove one way or the other, thus we cannor debate from either position. Best to debate using both to move the debate forward.

Stips indicate that the initiative would be at the side of the Avengers here. They decide the when and where and the DEs (who are 30 at most according to the vids shown) have a lot of ground to cover and a lot of cover is given to the more agile members of the Avengers. They have stealth, surprise and the advantage of range and more efficient weaponry (wands are clunky weapons IMO).

This isn't a field combat situation. This is close quarters + within a structue combat w/c will hinder wizard's LOS with their wands. Against trained combatants (save for IM and Hulk) with far more field battle experience than a bunch of sadistic wand slingers (who is without their leader no less) who are used to standing face to face at close range when wand dueling but prolly never encontered anything beyond that. This is even when ignroing the blatant no-limits fallacy (w/c, btw, is even more highly debatable than armor deflecting curses) that the AK would work on Hulk and Thor.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Yeah, watched it again. Looks like he shot AK at point blank and missed.... O_O then Hermione shot at him and hit a book sending stuff flying in the air.

Originally posted by omgchos
But we also have to look at it from the wizards defensive standpoint. They are hold up somewhere they arent supposed to be. It would stand to reason that they would have thing like alarm spells and such. I dont think stealth will be a factor. With one good catterwailing charm(which we do see in the movies) the second they get close enough to the castle to even get a bead on the situation the DE's will know they are coming and where they are. Then the shit hits the fan and for all we know the only two who will be able to even make it to the castle will be thor and iron man who can fly. Maybe hulk as he can jump like OG superman. Leaping buildings in a single bound.

Well, I agree. Alarm spells would no doubt be placed all over the place. But as the Avengers are "tasked" for/by the students, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would be allowed "basic knowledge" on some of the spells to look out for? AK/alarm spels, etc?

Any tactical mind would be able to circumvent those. If not, use diversions (the advantage of intiative) to disorient/misdirect the DEs. Heck, Hulk tossing in big boulders at the place would surely lure out many of the DE's to be sniped by Hawkeye as soon as they come in range or blasted/blown away by Thor in mid air before they even come close enough to cast their curses. In the movies, the DEs weren't very strategic, especially w/o Voldy to lead them.

Avengers would lose a few members but I really see them taking this.

I dont think we can make the assumption that they could foresee every possible defensive spell.

Originally posted by omgchos
I dont think we can make the assumption that they could foresee every possible defensive spell.

They don't have to, tho. Just get warned that such spells exist so that they can chose the battlefield conditions a bit better.

Originally posted by FrothByte
That's because that's what it looks like. But I already conceded to your point, that since the armor wasn't damaged by machine gun fire or energy blasts then it must be made of something else.

So no, I don't need to show proof of that because I already agreed with you.

You, however, need to show me proof that magical spells are similar to machine gun bullets and energy blasts in how they affect humans... unless you agree that they are completely different and just because an armor can repel bullets doesn't mean it can repel magic spells.

And then I go back to my example: A bullet proof vest does not make the wearer immune to tear gas.

The movies are filled with examples of spells being stopped by sufficiently solid objects, hell the diner scene that was posted earlier had spells being stopped by IIRC tables and chairs and the graveyard scene had a tombstone block a spell.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
They don't have to, tho. Just get warned that such spells exist so that they can chose the battlefield conditions a bit better.

To be fair, The Death Eaters had control of Hogwarts at one point in the movies and didn't place any alarms spells on it.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Derp

Gonna head out to dinner. While I'm at it, gonna try and compile an unbiased list of tactical advantages and disadvantages each side might have on each other. Everyone is free to contribute, tho. From there, we should be able to decide individually who wins and who doesn't. :-)

I don't recall the movie saying they used that method because it by-passes security spells.

Could you post the quote or a link to the scene where it's mentioned?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Derp

Where does the movie state it by-passes security spells?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Derp

Originally posted by Casper Whitey
Ahahahahaa, you reek of Potter hate. You also reek of Potter ignorance.

No attack the Avengers can throw at the DE's is instant. None. Apparition? It's instant. Invisible, Intangible and teleporting.

And yeah, ever hear of Imperio? Crucio? Body bind curse?

Why do you debate/diss HP when you obviously know nothing of it?

You sound mad?

Wrong. Lightning and lasers are faster than wizards casting. Even bullets. Stop wanking.

Yes, I have. I've watched the films and paid better attention, as it's clear I know more of the films than you.

Why do you debate with such HP bias; "Wizards pwns all!!11!!!" and such? It's clear this thread of "100+ to 6" was made out of spite since the Avengers are forced to now enter and try to clear the castle when Thor and Iron Man could level it to ash and rubble.

IOW, you can't prove that the Death Eaters placed any security wards on Hogwarts.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Derp

Originally posted by Robtard
You sound mad?

Wrong. Lightning and lasers are faster than wizards casting. Even bullets. Stop wanking.

Yes, I have. I've watched the films and paid better attention, as it's clear I know more of the films than you.

Why do you debate with such HP bias; "Wizards pwns all!!11!!!" and such? It's clear this thread of "100+ to 6" was made out of spite since the Avengers are forced to now enter and try to clear the castle when Thor and Iron Man could level it to ash and rubble.

1) The movie never mentioned the Death Eaters placing security spells on Hogwarts,
2) Harry and friends snuck into Hogwarts without any "security spells" going off
3) No mention was made that they by-passed any such spells.

So again, why exactly are we assuming that the Death Eaters had security spells on Hogwarts?

Originally posted by Silent Master
Derp

I only ever stated that there is proof that DEs have placed and know how to place defensive spells in the movie.

Its actually funny that you would gloss over the fact that where the DEs were hanging out, Hogsmead did have defensive spells on it. We never get to see if Hogwarts did or didnt because the passage they used was unbeknownst to the DEs.

So unless your saying that the death eater in this thread suddenly had a brain fart and decided not to bolster their defenses against what would at the very least be a ministry attack to take the school back, you just dont know what your talking about.

And you just keep earning the title of derp dont you?