Originally posted by -Pr-
😐Loeb wrote OWAW when he was at his best. This is Hush-era Loeb, not Rulk era Loeb.
Yes, the story is Superman centric, but the probes are legitimately powerful.
👆
Personally, I have no doubt the Annihilators could beat a single Probe.
As far as them soloing one, if you use some of their best feats ever - and I'm unsure if this thread or the other one specifies high end feats are especially encouraged - then yes, Surfer, Bill, and Quasar could likely solo one with some effort.
I do think the Probes are legitimately powerful, at least High Herald with some of them bordering on Trans. levels. That said, given the individual feats of some of the people fighting them (Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Mordru, etc, etc, etc.) I don't think we can seriously argue they were necessarily at their best when facing the Probes.
Unfortunately, this kinda leads to a problem. Do you discredit the Probes formidability as shown and intended via the entire OWAW arc because specific individuals have greater feats than that of struggling with a Probe? Or do you take the Probes at face value and deduce that because they took on multiple heralds (and beings above that) they must be uni-formally above that tier?
It's not a question that can easily be answered because one way or the other, that's going to cause closer scrutiny to many team based battles and threats when compared to a single character outperforming their performance when saddled with others.
Either way, someone's going to get angry and pissed.
It's tricky, because we know that yes, sometimes teams job or underperform. That's just the way it is. Take WWIII for example. Yes, Black Adam was and is a tough mofo, but the JSAers and Leaguers that were there have feats to suggest that, in a forum fight where everyone's at their best, Teth should be getting his ass handed to him in a lol stomp. Even Prime, as legitimately uber as he is, by all rights via feats, should have trouble with Superman alone given Kal's feats. Yet in the pages of SCW, he's shown casually dealing with multiple heralds and the like. And yes, before someone interjects, this applies to Marvel, too.
The Probes fall in a similar quality, imo. I don't think they should be discredited, but at the same time, in the grand scheme of things, it really depends on what level we're to be taking their opponents.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's tricky, because we know that yes, sometimes teams job or underperform. That's just the way it is. Take WWIII for example. Yes, Black Adam was and is a tough mofo, but the JSAers and Leaguers that were there have feats to suggest that, in a forum fight where everyone's at their best, Teth should be getting his ass handed to him in a lol stomp. Even Prime, as legitimately uber as he is, by all rights via feats, should have trouble with Superman alone given Kal's feats. Yet in the pages of SCW, he's shown casually dealing with multiple heralds and the like. And yes, before someone interjects, this applies to Marvel, too.The Probes fall in a similar quality, imo. I don't think they should be discredited, but at the same time, in the grand scheme of things, it really depends on what level we're to be taking their opponents.
This applies to Marvel "except Hulk". 😠
Originally posted by JakeTheBankIt's clear they were meant to be above, judging by their performances against teams and even the one on ones. I mean, they were manhandling the other 'peers' of Superman.
👆Personally, I have no doubt the Annihilators could beat a single Probe.
As far as them soloing one, if you use some of their best feats ever - and I'm unsure if this thread or the other one specifies high end feats are especially encouraged - then yes, Surfer, Bill, and Quasar could likely solo one with some effort.
I do think the Probes are legitimately powerful, at least High Herald with some of them bordering on Trans. levels. That said, given the individual feats of some of the people fighting them (Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Mordru, etc, etc, etc.) I don't think we can seriously argue they were necessarily at their best when facing the Probes.
Unfortunately, this kinda leads to a problem. Do you discredit the Probes formidability as shown and intended via the entire OWAW arc because specific individuals have greater feats than that of struggling with a Probe? Or do you take the Probes at face value and deduce that because they took on multiple heralds (and beings above that) they must be uni-formally above that tier?
It's not a question that can easily be answered because one way or the other, that's going to cause closer scrutiny to many team based battles and threats when compared to a single character outperforming their performance when saddled with others.
Either way, someone's going to get angry and pissed.
I understand your problem with this, is that Superman was manhandling by the handful when he went balls out, and thus, he should be able to do that to the other 'peers' as well.
I don't see the problem, and believe that in that mode- he would. And -easily-.
Superman has 'peers', but he constantly distinguishes himself from them to the point where even they're flat out amazed. This was one of those examples.
Him manhandling Darkseid, was another -- perhaps less extreme -- version of this. His battles were Doomsday are the same. No one else could toe to toe and slug with Doomsday.
But somehow, the haters don't seem to recognize this.
Somehow they see it as, well, if Superman can do it, then so can abcd and e.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankI wasn't referring to anyone specifically, and you shouldn't either.... just those that support that overall view- when Superman trashes guys like Darkseid, or Doomsday, or cuts through Probes, its them being below that level they believe Superman to be in with all his peers. When none of his peers could hardly give them pause, even in groups.
There's probably like one legit "hater" in the thread. And he's an idiot. I don't think anyone who questions the feat or arc or necessarily argues in favor of the Annihilators is a hater in any case.
But it's also wrong to write it off as being just a crossover Superman fanwanking. And not giving the characters credit. This was a 2 year storyline, that ran through most of DC's books[The Supertitles, Lantern title, Group titles, and Bat titles. And many one shots etc.] and the buildup of Superman to this point, getting more and more powerful was years before that.
You can't just write off something like 5 years of solo book, and 2 years of line-wide crossover, and say it was just a wanking. lol.
Just write off half a decade of books, because Superman was more powerful than you want him to be.
It even sounds retarded.
Don't like it?
Don't use that version of Superman or the Probes in threads.
Originally posted by Juntai
I wasn't referring to anyone specifically, and you shouldn't either.... just those that support that overall view- when Superman trashes guys like Darkseid, or Doomsday, or cuts through Probes, its them being below that level they believe Superman to be in with all his peers. When none of his peers could hardly give them pause, even in groups.But it's also wrong to write it off as being just a crossover Superman fanwanking. And not giving the characters credit. This was a 2 year storyline, that ran through most of DC's books[The Supertitles, Lantern title, Group titles, and Bat titles. And many one shots etc.] and the buildup of Superman to this point, getting more and more powerful was years before that.
You can't just write off something like 5 years of solo book, and 2 years of line-wide crossover, and say it was just a wanking. lol.
Just write off half a decade of books, because Superman was more powerful than you want him to be.
It even sounds retarded.
Don't like it?
Don't use that version of Superman or the Probes in threads.
Originally posted by Juntai
I wasn't referring to anyone specifically, and you shouldn't either.... just those that support that overall view- when Superman trashes guys like Darkseid, or Doomsday, or cuts through Probes, its them being below that level they believe Superman to be in with all his peers. When none of his peers could hardly give them pause, even in groups.But it's also wrong to write it off as being just a crossover Superman fanwanking. And not giving the characters credit. This was a 2 year storyline, that ran through most of DC's books[The Supertitles, Lantern title, Group titles, and Bat titles. And many one shots etc.] and the buildup of Superman to this point, getting more and more powerful was years before that.
You can't just write off something like 5 years of solo book, and 2 years of line-wide crossover, and say it was just a wanking. lol.
Just write off half a decade of books, because Superman was more powerful than you want him to be.
It even sounds retarded.
Don't like it?
Don't use that version of Superman or the Probes in threads.