Bor vs P5 Emma Frost

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I can see why they'd be mad and decry it as PIS if they weren't aware of or ignored Thor's history of dealing with telepathy and mental based attacks/intrusions.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
It's not based off of mere statements, but rather how JMS presented Odin Force Thor in comparison to regular Thor. The Destroyer Armor, which has actually killed Thor on panel, merely gave OF Thor burns when it used its same attack. Bor pushed OF Thor even more than that. Ergo, statement or not, it's definitely not a baseless one or one made without any sort of backing.

And yet, Thor's endured greater punishment than from someone possessed by 1/5 of the PF entity. By all rights, based on feats alone instead of using things such as character comparison, writer intent, statements, and comics as a whole instead of just feats, Thor enduring a "merciless" barrage of Celestials should ensure that he should laugh at everything thrown his way under that level. But that would be stupid as shit to do.

It's speculation at best, though, which is fine to do, but really that's all it is.

It would mean a lot except for the fact that Ben Grimm also survived a kill-shot from Celestials quite recently. So it basically comes down what level the PF is at in comparison to Celestials? Well, since the PF easily overpowered/destroyed a being empowered by the energies of one of the strongest Celestials in canon, there's that. As I said before, 1/5th of it being able KO a Thor who's been jobbed left and right in non-Thor titles, that too after a prolonged fight isn't an outlandish idea imo.

OK. I was just trying to make it up to my buddy zop for all the times I truthfully insulted him of being a lowballing hypocrite, by arguing his debate for him. I guess I'll leave it to him to take care of himself from now on.

Forgot this one:

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Based on what? Loki only did so to Bor because he had prep and got the jump on him. What did Emma do to give you the idea she could replicate such a feat in the midst of combat?

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I was just trying to make it up to my buddy zop for all the times I truthfully insulted him of being a lowballing hypocrite, by arguing his debate for him. I guess I'll leave it to him to take care of himself from now on.

Well to addd to this old debate about Bor being able to oneshot Classic Thor.

Fact classic Thor was killed by the destroyers visor beams

Fact Odinforce Thor tanked it with no damaged

Fact Bor did more damaged to odinforce Thor then the destoryer's beam did

Thors admits the odinforce was used and he still was injuried

Bor is a beast

This is simple:

Bor puts up a decent fight against 1/5 PF Emma until she uses all her abilities to the fullest capacity however.....

Emma with 1/2 of the force prison rapes Bor to the point he can't control his defecation.

Imo.. Xavier talking out thor and p5 namor effortlessly really screwed everything up. Rulk tanking p5 emma was another really bad showing.
Wasn't Xenmu able to mind control Rulk as well?

Apparently Xavier and Xenmu > then omega level telepath amped by 1/5 of the PF. Sinster's Maddie clones were tearing through mag's helmet and psy defenses like a hot knife through butter.

I really have no idea why PF emma of all people was turned into a brawler. She should have been mindraping people left and right.

Telepathy was the biggest jobber of avx everyone and their mother had tp resistance.

It can also be said that the P5 were all holding back. Colossus told kitty if he really wanted to he could just kill and bring everyone from the dead after.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Emma still has to do shit on panel with said power instead of merely being attributed to what she should or could do on panel.

On panel, Bor would have killed the same Thor that was fighting her and would have won if not for her regeneration.

And yet, Thor's endured greater punishment than from someone possessed by 1/5 of the PF entity. By all rights, based on feats alone instead of using things such as character comparison, writer intent, statements, and comics as a whole instead of just feats, Thor enduring a "merciless" barrage of Celestials should ensure that he should laugh at everything thrown his way under that level. But that would be stupid as shit to do.

Originally posted by nwg202
Imo.. Xavier talking out thor and p5 namor effortlessly really screwed everything up. Rulk tanking p5 emma was another really bad showing.
Wasn't Xenmu able to mind control Rulk as well?

Apparently Xavier and Xenmu > then omega level telepath amped by 1/5 of the PF. Sinster's Maddie clones were tearing through mag's helmet and psy defenses like a hot knife through butter.

I really have no idea why PF emma of all people was turned into a brawler. She should have been mindraping people left and right.

Telepathy was the biggest jobber of avx everyone and their mother had tp resistance.

It can also be said that the P5 were all holding back. Colossus told kitty if he really wanted to he could just kill and bring everyone from the dead after.

Correct.
The whole Phoenix 5 team held back thru the entire event.

Thor was one shotted how many times with ease?
Spidey's life was spared after he got brutally pummeled.
Erik was stuck and couldn't even move.
Scott played with Galadiator trying to talk sense to him.
Namor snapped Rulks arm like a twig.
One punch from Colossus wrecked Gladiator.

You get the picture.
All this stuff was done effortlessly.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Well to addd to this old debate about Bor being able to oneshot Classic Thor.

Fact classic Thor was killed by the destroyers visor beams

Fact Odinforce Thor tanked it with no damaged

Fact Bor did more damaged to odinforce Thor then the destoryer's beam did

Thors admits the odinforce was used and he still was injuried

Bor is a beast

Energy blasts=/= physical strikes
The two can't be compared when arguing whether Bor can kill Thor with a single strike (not blast).

Bor.

P5 Emma was clearly superior, physically, to normal Thor. She could, and did, beat him down with a rain of blows after her diamond storm attack.

Bor was also clearly superior, physically, to normal Thor -- since he took an Odinforce-amped Thor to the limits of his endurance (and beyond the limits of Mjolnir). But a holding back Bor broke Odinforce Thor's ribs with a single shot, which would have killed unamped Thor. P5 Emma certainly never one-shotted Thor or was implied to have such power.

And I don't see a Phoenix-diamond storm (P5 Emma's most impressive feat/attack) doing as much damage to a god who is literally harder than Mjolnir. She'd get busted by Bor (since Thor did it) and she'd likely reform, but it'd be irresponsible to assume she could reform without limit. And as I've just been reminded, P5 Emma's telepathy is rather useless against gods.

Originally posted by ODG
Bor.

P5 Emma was clearly superior, physically, to normal Thor. She could, and did, beat him down with a rain of blows after her diamond storm attack.

Bor was also clearly superior, physically, to normal Thor -- since he took an Odinforce-amped Thor to the limits of his endurance (and beyond the limits of Mjolnir). But a holding back Bor broke Odinforce Thor's ribs with a single shot, which would have killed unamped Thor. P5 Emma certainly never one-shotted Thor or was implied to have such power.

And I don't see a Phoenix-diamond storm (P5 Emma's most impressive feat/attack) doing as much damage to a god who is literally harder than Mjolnir. She'd get busted by Bor (since Thor did it) and she'd likely reform, but it'd be irresponsible to assume she could reform without limit. And as I've just been reminded, P5 Emma's telepathy is rather useless against gods.

QFT.

P5 Emma gets axed. She wasn`t that impressive.

Emma stomps grand-dad like she stomped Thor.

Problem with Emma is she sucked as 1/5 of PF, she got smashed into pieces by Thor, failed to mind control 2 mid/high heralds, messed up by Warbird, got punked by Quicksilver etc. She didn't show enough offensive power for me. Bor wins.

Originally posted by ODG
Bor.

P5 Emma was clearly superior, physically, to normal Thor. She could, and did, beat him down with a rain of blows after her diamond storm attack.

Bor was also clearly superior, physically, to normal Thor -- since he took an Odinforce-amped Thor to the limits of his endurance (and beyond the limits of Mjolnir). But a holding back Bor broke Odinforce Thor's ribs with a single shot, which would have killed unamped Thor. P5 Emma certainly never one-shotted Thor or was implied to have such power.

And I don't see a Phoenix-diamond storm (P5 Emma's most impressive feat/attack) doing as much damage to a god who is literally harder than Mjolnir. She'd get busted by Bor (since Thor did it) and she'd likely reform, but it'd be irresponsible to assume she could reform without limit. And as I've just been reminded, P5 Emma's telepathy is rather useless against gods.

Even though your argument supports Bor being physically superior to Emma it still doesn't explain how he would win. She can reform over and over. There's nothing lasting he can do to her. IMO, She is powerful enough to hurt and affect Bor. Thinking otherwise is asinine.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Problem with Emma is she sucked as 1/5 of PF, she got smashed into pieces by Thor, failed to mind control 2 mid/high heralds, messed up by Warbird, got punked by Quicksilver etc. She didn't show enough offensive power for me. Bor wins.

Yeah she got smashed but look what she had those smashed pieces do to him afterwards. That point is moot.
Warbird's attack had no lasting effect whatsoever.
Are you saying Quicksilver actually stands a chance against a PF avatar in a all out fight? Forum setting OR comic book? Really???
Lack of tp effectiveness (capital PIS btw) is not a must have tactic that would be relative to this fight.

Originally posted by Sundipped
Yeah she got smashed but look what she had those smashed pieces do to him afterwards. That point is moot.
Warbird's attack had no lasting effect whatsoever.
Are you saying Quicksilver actually stands a chance against a PF avatar in a all out fight? Forum setting [B]OR comic book? Really???
Lack of tp effectiveness (capital PIS btw) is not a must have tactic that would be relative to this fight. [/B]

Bor is far more durable than regular Thor. If Thor can essentially out-muscle her and smash her into pieces Bor is going to do a helluva lot worse.

Despite having a supposed huge amp in power the only impressive thing I can remember her doing was reforming to ko Thor. It's going to take a lot more than that beat Bor.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
What was the point of this post? You aren't really saying anything except trying to spin her low showings.

Bor is far more durable than regular Thor. If Thor can essentially out-muscle her and smash her into pieces Bor is going to do a helluva lot worse.

Despite having a supposed huge amp in power the only impressive thing I can remember her doing was reforming to ko Thor. It's going to take a lot more than that beat Bor.

I'm not trying to "spin" anything. How is any of what I just explained a low showing? Rather, your description of those events has a lowball like feel to it.

Why are you reiterating Emma being smashed? That won't register a auto win against her being infused with the PF. And on the contrary, she outmuscled Thor after that happened.

You didn't see anything impressive because no one she faced required her to extend the upper limits of her power. There was no need. 1/5 of the PF power is sufficient enough to 1 shot ko a legitimate high herald. The reason this fight was as long as it was, was because it occurred in the AvX vs tie in series in which the entire comic was dedicated to having prolonged fights.

Then why even reply to my post? Nothing I stated was a lie or exaggeration. She got punked by Q'silver, iirc she was momentarily taken out of the fight against the Sh'iar by Warbird, smashed by Thor etc etc. These all happened on panel in the same event that's not lowballing. I already mentioned her taking down Thor but afaik that's the most impressive thing she did.

You're missing the point. If a high herald can destroy her body in it's hardened form what do you think a trans tier or above being is going to do? She can't stay human so when Bor breaks her she's going to be vulnerable.

I'd agree somewhat but we can't judge beyond what was depicted on panel, especially with 2 characters who have no history together and have very limited appearances. We don't know just how much power Emma had in reserve, if any, but it works both ways in this case.

What we do know for 100% certain is that what Emma DID show as P5 wasn't enough to stop Bor.

Originally posted by Sundipped
1/5 of the PF power is sufficient enough to 1 shot ko a legitimate high herald.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Then why even reply to my post? Nothing I stated was a lie or exaggeration. She got punked by Q'silver, iirc she was momentarily taken out of the fight against the Sh'iar by Warbird, smashed by Thor etc etc. These all happened on panel in the same event that's not lowballing. I already mentioned her taking down Thor but afaik that's the most impressive thing she did.

You're missing the point. If a high herald can destroy her body in it's hardened form what do you think a trans tier or above being is going to do? She can't stay human so when Bor breaks her she's going to be vulnerable.

I'd agree somewhat but we can't judge beyond what was depicted on panel, especially with 2 characters who have no history together and have very limited appearances. We don't know just how much power Emma had in reserve, if any, but it works both ways in this case.

What we do know for 100% certain is that what Emma DID show as P5 wasn't enough to stop Bor.

This is a case where you have to apply common logic. My whole point from the beginning is that the cases you mention aren't low feats the way you're making it seem. This is obvious nitpicking in an attempt to discredit Emma. Those events have absolutely NO bearing on what would happen in a all out battle. Especially in a forum setting. They aren't even worth mentioning. At he drop of a dime she could transmute either Warbird or Pietro. Hell, she barbecued Clint without even trying.

And what's the big deal about Bor smashing the diamond form? No doubt he can do it but as you can see here, Emma has total molecular control of her smashed bodyparts. She went out into orbit and made it rain like a strip club. So no this isn't a vulnerable state.

All you need is a little common sense. With her amp, she is well within the realm of duplicating everything Namor and Scott did. Just because she chose to use that particular method to best Thor doesn't mean she couldn't have done it easier. She even said she expected more of a challenge from him, meaning his efforts were complete weaksauce....even in the VS series where the fights were meant to be drawn out over an extended period.

At any rate, if you want to take the "well we didn't see her do anything
monumental so it's unlikely she could do something of that nature" stance then be my guest. We have other hosts running off the same exact amp in terms of potency and amount to use as a measuring stick.