Originally posted by SundippedMy eyebrow is raised, but you are entitled to your opinion. Either way, giving P5 Emma full faith and credit to oneshot ko a high herald doesnt exactly stack favorably against Bor who, should you also be giving him full faith and credit, can one shot kill high heralds.
For me, she doesn't have to for me to know that she can.
Not sure how you get around that.
Originally posted by ODG
My eyebrow is raised, but you are entitled to your opinion. Either way, giving P5 Emma full faith and credit to oneshot ko a high herald doesnt exactly stack favorably against Bor who, should you also be giving him full faith and credit, can one shot kill high heralds.Not sure how you get around that.
It does stack favorably if you consider the version of Emma with 1/2 of the force (op didn't specify or limit this to just Emma with only 1/5 of the power).
Basic logic would indicate that it's plausible for her to one shot kill a herald at that level even though it wasn't explicitly shown. You have to agree that a non holding back shot of that magnitude would be far more devastating than what 1/5 of the power holding back did to Thor by a host with the same amp.
Originally posted by zopzop
Debating anything regarding AvX is pretty much a waste of time. Did any of you guys/gals see that Comicbook Resources Forum post about the leaked notes behind the AvX storyline?Clusterfxxk is the word that comes to mind. I think TheGodKiller linked to it in the Character Ownage Thread.
What page is the link on?
Better yet, could you post it? It would save me the trouble of having to search.
Originally posted by zopzopNot reaaly seeing Thor got zapped what once or twice by a celestial and which the destroyer took many many blast for the entire fourth host also is not like the 3 skyfathers went all out on their blast but they smart enough to know if they we not going to win a battle judging from the combine attack.
You realize she didn't want to kill Thor right? Because she could have easily if she wanted to.
See? This is a CLASSIC example of PIS/CIS. Thor survived an assault that slagged the 2000ft Destroyer! Thor actually managed to chip one of the Celestial's armor while the combined power of THREE SKYFATHERS couldn't even scratch one. [/B]
Originally posted by SundippedI would hardly call unleashing a storm of diamond shards holding back more of Thor having a very high durability to live through it
It does stack favorably if you consider the version of Emma with 1/2 of the force (op didn't specify or limit this to just Emma with only 1/5 of the power).Basic logic would indicate that it's plausible for her to one shot kill a herald at that level even though it wasn't explicitly shown. You have to agree that a non holding back shot of that magnitude would be far more devastating than what 1/5 of the power holding back did to Thor by a host with the same amp.
@Sundipped
In the context of this thread those less-than-stellar showings are absolutely relevant. She struggled with speed, high herald strength, suspect durability and even her greatest power which would have been significantly amped let her down. You seem to forget this a trans/skyfather being she's facing not Thor, Vision and Cap, What's stopping Bor from manipulating her broken form and grinding her into dust? I don't subscribe to the no limit fallacy that she can reform no matter what, and she was NEVER shown to.
Amped by the same source or not characters don't get to feat share, NONE of the hosts do. Not even Thor and BRB get that pass so I don't see why it should be any different here. The P5 received "standard" powers but they also received their own unique capabilities on top of their own mutant powers which contradicts your claim of them all being equal. Cyclops, even while holding back, was clearly shown to be more formidable than Emma for example.
@ Nibedicus and Sundipped
Sorry I can't remember it. I should have saved the link. Let's just say, this clusterfxxk event could have been FAR FAR worse. They had ideas like "Hex Knights" beating the P5 and other crap.
You could see the writers were all over the place and not on the same page.........at all.
EDIT - here is what I was referring to :
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/11/tom-brevoort-reveals-tantilizing-first-draft-of-avengers-vs-x-men-ending/
The post in the forums that I'm still looking for had way more info. Trainwreck!
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Not reaaly seeing Thor got zapped what once or twice by a celestial and which the destroyer took many many blast for the entire fourth host also is not like the 3 skyfathers went all out on their blast but they smart enough to know if they we not going to win a battle judging from the combine attack.
Three Skyfathers combined their power to attack Arishem, he didn't even get scratched. Thor hit a Celestial with a Mjolnir strike and bits of it's armor broke off. He didn't even have his Belt of Strength or anything.
That sh|t was so PIS ridden the whole issue smelled like urine.
Originally posted by zopzop
@ Nibedicus and Sundipped
Sorry I can't remember it. I should have saved the link. Let's just say, this clusterfxxk event could have been FAR FAR worse. They had ideas like "Hex Knights" beating the P5 and other crap.You could see the writers were all over the place and not on the same page.........at all.
EDIT - here is what I was referring to :
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/11/tom-brevoort-reveals-tantilizing-first-draft-of-avengers-vs-x-men-ending/The post in the forums that I'm still looking for had way more info. Trainwreck!
Dude he took 2 or 3 "merciless" blasts from the Celestials and he wasn't even KOed. The Destroyer was sent reeling from ONE blast from a Celestial.
Three Skyfathers combined their power to attack Arishem, he didn't even get scratched. Thor hit a Celestial with a Mjolnir strike and bits of it's armor broke off. He didn't even have his Belt of Strength or anything.
That sh|t was so PIS ridden the whole issue smelled like urine.
The destroyer took alot more then one blast in took a blast from all the fourth host to put down the destroyer for good, and it was not like Thor tanked the blast from the celestials he was about to be put down
Originally posted by zopzop
Debating anything regarding AvX is pretty much a waste of time. Did any of you guys/gals see that Comicbook Resources Forum post about the leaked notes behind the AvX storyline?Clusterfxxk is the word that comes to mind. I think TheGodKiller linked to it in the Character Ownage Thread.
Originally posted by zopzop
Dude he took 2 or 3 "merciless" blasts from the Celestials and he wasn't even KOed. The Destroyer was sent reeling from ONE blast from a Celestial.Three Skyfathers combined their power to attack Arishem, he didn't even get scratched. Thor hit a Celestial with a Mjolnir strike and bits of it's armor broke off. He didn't even have his Belt of Strength or anything.
That sh|t was so PIS ridden the whole issue smelled like urine.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I can see why they'd be mad and decry it as PIS if they weren't aware of or ignored Thor's history of dealing with telepathy and mental based attacks/intrusions.
Thor didn't resist her powers in the issue. She was stunned by his mind because according to the issue she didn't have experience peering into a "gods" mind. Rachel Grey didn't have this problem. And niether did Xavier.
Later on, after having this experience she was able to get into all the Avengers minds and was going to turn all their Avengers minds off with a thought.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Thor didn't resist her powers in the issue. She was stunned by his mind because according to the issue she didn't have experience peering into a "gods" mind. Rachel Grey didn't have this problem. And niether did Xavier.Later on, after having this experience she was able to get into all the Avengers minds and was going to turn all their Avengers minds off with a thought.
Xavier was the only one who could handle Thor telepathically, and I think that his past encounters with Phoenix and Galactus can be used to justify such a showing.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Rachel didn't succeed in mindphucking him either, so that point is moot.Xavier was the only one who could handle Thor telepathically, and I think that his past encounters with Phoenix and Galactus can be used to justify such a showing.
Not really, because the reason given in the issue was lack of experience. It had nothing to do with Thor and everything to do with Emma. Besides, later on in the crossover, she located all the Avengers and was tempted to turn their minds off.
Thor has quite a few showings where telepathy has gotten him too. Bedlam and Moondragon too. His mental defenses are like any superhero, come into play when the plot requires it.
Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Not really, because the reason given in the issue was lack of experience. It had nothing to do with Thor and everything to do with Emma. Besides, later on in the crossover, she located all the Avengers and was tempted to turn their minds off.Thor has quite a few showings where telepathy has gotten him too. Bedlam and Moondragon too. His mental defenses are like any superhero, come into play when the plot requires it.
The Xavier showing was stupid regardless when one considers the Spider Woman/psy-shield instance in that same showing.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Later in the crossover, she failed to maintain control over Rulk's mind as well. Again, as I said before, that point is moot. Not to mention that the "explanation" that you're talking about was implied in the Rachel VS Thor fight, not in his encounter with Emma(the only thing that would suggest that is Emma shouting "Oh God" while trying to mindrape Thor).The Xavier showing was stupid regardless when one considers the Spider Woman/psy-shield instance in that same showing.
They're all linked. They came out at the same time. It's the same way editorial decided Thing and Colossus would get taken down by WWH in the same manner. They look at each others stuff. And no it was also implied in the issue itself. The narrator says "Emma Frost is one of the most powerful telepaths on Earth. But has she ever peered into the mind of a God?" She was stunned at first, never gave it a second shot because he charged at her she decided to stay in Diamond Form for the rest of the fight. Also, Warbird stuck a explosive sword through her when she was human and it blew up and she was fine there too. And on top of that she was playing with him.
I think the Rulk thing was more about what she saw in his mind. Again she was rattled by seeing him punch a Watcher. But again it, was to advance the plot. MODOK could mess him up with mental powers.
Anyway, in #9 she was linked to every mind on the planet and could have turned off all their minds if she wanted too.
The Xavier thing was fine. The Emma nad Psylocke things were stupid. Emma does have experience with the Phoenix too and Psylocke has dealt with super beings with super senses before. It was really to advance the plot.
Also, Bendis' issue tied in directly to Aarons one.