Bor vs P5 Emma Frost

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
I think the Rulk thing was more about what she saw in his mind. Again she was rattled by seeing him punch a Watcher. But again it, was to advance the plot. MODOK could mess him up with mental powers.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

Anyway, in #9 she was linked to every mind on the planet and could have turned off all their minds if she wanted too.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak

The Xavier thing was fine. The Emma nad Psylocke things were stupid. Emma does have experience with the Phoenix too and Psylocke has dealt with super beings with super senses before. It was really to advance the plot.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
[B]Pretty sure she lost control of his mind the moment Ross began to transform. And that was before she revealed to Scott the Watcher and Silver Surfer incidents.

She went to Diamond the moment he attacked her. Then Magneto and Cyclops showed up and she revealed the memories. Anyway, like I said M.O.D.O.K. got him. Unless you're saying M.O.D.O.K. > Phoenix Emma. I'd personally put it down to her panicking in what memories she saw e.g. The Watcher. But I guess you could take that anyway you wanted.

Iirc, her portion of the phoenix had been increased by then. She was more powerful than before in that instance.

She was already beaucoup powerful before that. The issue was about peering into a "gods mind". It was all about experience as shown with the Xavier incident. Not about power.

Also as I said on the previous page, keep in mind that none of the Phoenix 5 dedicated their full attention to any of the fights. They were busy doing other things as shown in Uncanny X-Men.

Bor was KILLED by Odin Force Thor, who besides a couple of feats, wasn't really all that impressive to me, power wise (although in terms of attitude and story line he was admittedly awesome). I just don't see Bor challenging 1/5 of the Phoenix Force. And Emma hasn't one shot killed a herald, but neither have MANY other uber entities either. It doesn't mean they couldn't.

Originally posted by PillarofOsiris
Bor was KILLED by Odin Force Thor, who besides a couple of feats, wasn't really all that impressive to me, power wise (although in terms of attitude and story line he was admittedly awesome). I just don't see Bor challenging 1/5 of the Phoenix Force. And Emma hasn't one shot killed a herald, but neither have MANY other uber entities either. It doesn't mean they couldn't.

Odin Force Thor didn't have many fights. But the fights he did have specifically drove home the fact that he was clearly above the likes of "classic"/non-Odin Force empowered Thor. OF Thor tanks the Destroyer's disintegration ray; normal Thor gets killed by it. OF Thor is able to block Bor's strikes and suffer only broken ribs; normal Thor would have apparently been killed outright. I'm legitimately baffled as to why there still seems to be people who believe OF Thor was only minimally more powerful than normal Thor, if he was even more powerful at all.

Bor was killed by OF Thor, and Bor was literally more durable than Mjolnir itself, as evidenced by the fact it shattered upon striking him. That suggests an insane level of power from OF Thor as well as durability from Bor himself.

Like ODG said, if one were to give full faith and credit to P5 Emma based on stuff she really hasn't done, then one should do the same for Bor based on stuff he actually did do on panel.

Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Iirc, in a letters page the writer of that arc gave an explanation to outraged Thor/Asgard fans that Odin and the skyfathers had been weakened from their stay on Earth.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin Force Thor didn't have many fights. But the fights he did have specifically drove home the fact that he was clearly above the likes of "classic"/non-Odin Force empowered Thor. OF Thor tanks the Destroyer's disintegration ray; normal Thor gets killed by it. OF Thor is able to block Bor's strikes and suffer only broken ribs; normal Thor would have apparently been killed outright. I'm legitimately baffled as to why there still seems to be people who believe OF Thor was only minimally more powerful than normal Thor, if he was even more powerful at all.

Bor was killed by OF Thor, and Bor was literally more durable than Mjolnir itself, as evidenced by the fact it shattered upon striking him. That suggests an insane level of power from OF Thor as well as durability from Bor himself.

Like ODG said, if one were to give full faith and credit to P5 Emma based on stuff she really hasn't done, then one should do the same for Bor based on stuff he actually did do on panel.

I agree OF Thor was more powerful than classic Thor, by quite a bit even. But a entity with 1/5 of the Phoenix Force should be quite a ways above even OF Thor, nevermind Bor, who OF Thor killed.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
@Sundipped

In the context of this thread those less-than-stellar showings are absolutely relevant irrelevant. She struggled with speed, high herald strength, suspect durability and even her greatest power which would have been significantly amped let her down. You seem to forget this a trans/skyfather being she's facing not Thor, Vision and Cap, What's stopping Bor from manipulating her broken form and grinding her into dust? I don't subscribe to the no limit fallacy that she can reform no matter what, and she was NEVER shown to.

See what I did there?
You continue to point to these showing as if it we're some kind of weakness. Well you can throw the Quicksilver encounter out the window because Bor is no speedster. Warbird did nothing.

on the next page she is unharmed

What makes you think it would be so simple as Bor grinding just grinding her into dust being that she has subatomic control via the Phoenix amp? You're clinging on to that "never shown" stance too tight. Common knowledge is that the PF has superb control on a molecular level. Scott dematerialized Tony's armor with a gesture.

Originally posted by The Sorrow
Amped by the same source or not characters don't get to feat share, NONE of the hosts do. Not even Thor and BRB get that pass so I don't see why it should be any different here. The P5 received "standard" powers but they also received their own unique capabilities on top of their own mutant powers which contradicts your claim of them all being equal. Cyclops, even while holding back, was [b]clearly shown to be more formidable than Emma for example. [/B]

Stormbreaker = Miljnor. They both have and are capable of the same abilities. All of the P5 we're bestowed with telepathy, telekinesis, super human strength/durability and molecular control. All of which was shown throughout the arc. Magik even ko'ed Colossus with 1 punch. Something Gladiator failed at. You may have thought Scott was more powerful but he really wasn't. His optic beam was enhanced but so we're the others attributes. Flight was included also.

Originally posted by Sundipped
It does stack favorably if you consider the version of Emma with 1/2 of the force (op didn't specify or limit this to just Emma with only 1/5 of the power).

Basic logic would indicate that it's plausible for her to one shot kill a herald at that level even though it wasn't explicitly shown. You have to agree that a non holding back shot of that magnitude would be far more devastating than what 1/5 of the power holding back did to Thor by a host with the same amp.

Despite the fact that she never came close to one shot killing a herald whilst "holding back" (something you haven't even proven)? If anything, Emma and Namor were the most aggressive and nastiest of the P5.

Originally posted by ExodusCloak
Thor didn't resist her powers in the issue. She was stunned by his mind because according to the issue she didn't have experience peering into a "gods" mind. Rachel Grey didn't have this problem. And niether did Xavier.

Later on, after having this experience she was able to get into all the Avengers minds and was going to turn all their Avengers minds off with a thought.

P2 Emma, and she never did. Not exactly something that overturns P5 Emma precedent.