Are the Republican Party even wanted anymore?

Originally posted by red g jacks
the two sides clearly have different priorities in regard to how to tackle the debt. the democrats are mostly concerned over protecting "entitlements" while the republicans are against any hike in tax rates for the rich. you can argue about which stance would help the middle class more. that doesn't change the fact that they're two different stances, hence why the compromise is hard to come by in the first place.

how does this fit into the "there's no difference between the two parties" hypotheses?

Both Obama and Romney said that they would not raise taxes on the middle class and neither of them ruled out raising taxes on the rich, in one form or another. This was while both of them accused the other of trickle down economics.

Hardly a difference, at all.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Having people sacrifice their livelihood so billionaires can profit is an objectively horrible idea, no matter who is saying it

You are a broken record. For the third time I'm going to ask you for specific examples

Originally posted by Lestov16
Having people sacrifice their livelihood so billionaires can profit is an objectively horrible idea, no matter who is saying it

How am I sacrificing my livelihood so billionaires can profit? From my financial perspective, 1) I am getting paid by billionaires and 2)their tax money goes to me and my family.

1) I work for a fortune 50 company whose home is in the US, 2) Currently, I get paid to live in the US, each year, when I do my taxes. Not only do I get all the money I paid into the federal government (I claim "4" on my taxes), they pay me money on top of that due to the credits for which I am eligible.

So the opposite is true for what you are saying. So where do we go from here?

Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
You are a broken record. For the third time I'm going to ask you for specific examples

I provided a specific example that shows he is wrong, at least in my case.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Both Obama and Romney said that they would not raise taxes on the middle class and neither of them ruled out raising taxes on the rich, in one form or another. This was while both of them accused the other of trickle down economics.

Hardly a difference, at all.

in any case, i'm less interested in campaign promises and more interested in the demands both sides are making right now during the 'negotiations.' i can't see why both sides would find it so hard to cut a deal that they both must want to make if their positions are so identical.

i mean, they do have a lot of things in common, but i think this is an example of where they don't agree. healthcare would be another example.

Originally posted by Archaeopteryx
You are a broken record. For the third time I'm going to ask you for specific examples

You mean besides the fact that Republicans have put us into our current financial crisis because they refuse to raise the debt ceiling because Obama wants to tax the rich (not even on a level that would really effect their livelihood) rather than butcher much-needed Social Security and Medicaid? Or do you mean last year, when they nearly put our economy into default, Or do you mean how Michigan Republicans are trying to surpress unions so they don't have a say in elections? Or do you mean how they obstructed numerous potential economic reforms:
Not because of any logical reason, but purely to
A: Spite Obama
B: Blame him for the bad/worsened economy when no change occurs (because Republicans are stopping economic reforms)
C: Get utter scumbag Mitt Romney elected on a campaign of complete bullshit that they honestly thought the US population would be stupid enough to believe (but then again Romney did get voted for, so 🙁 )

I'm going to ask you: Why is your only tactic of defending Republican's utter disgusting, unethical, and outright retarded actions basically by saying "Democrats have done bad things too". And why are you defending such reprehensible people in the first place?

Originally posted by dadudemon
How am I sacrificing my livelihood so billionaires can profit? From my financial perspective, 1) I am getting paid by billionaires and 2)their tax money goes to me and my family.

I'm so glad that you, from your great financial perspective, represent the vast majority of Americans whose lives these cuts will affect, including the disabled, elderly, and others who are in need of assistance to live. I'm so glad you can callously say "Phuck them! As long as I'm good!" I'm glad to see that is the mindset of the Republican 🙂

Originally posted by Lestov16
I'm so glad that you, from your great financial perspective, represent the vast majority of Americans whose lives these cuts will affect, including the disabled, elderly, and others who are in need of assistance to live. I'm so glad you can callously say "Phuck them! As long as I'm good!" I'm glad to see that is the mindset of the Republican 🙂

That isn't his mindset. You're embellishing his position and putting words in his mouth to villify him. It borders on trolling.

Think about this: why would the Republican party essentially torpedo its long-term chances at being elected, solely to empower 1-2% of the population? It's not a viable long-term model, even if a certain percentage of the population will always vote for them. Disagree with their policies if you want - and you do - but the less cut-and-dry truth is that both parties do have a general hope of creating well-being for Americans. They just go about it in different ways. All you're doing is repeating Dem. rhetoric.

Also relevant, the middle class would likely be ok under either party. Market forces largely out of the hands of the President have a far greater bearing on economic struggles than presidential talking points.

Relevant point: I'm not a Republican.

Originally posted by red g jacks
well that's a bit misleading. obama campaigned on specifically raising the tax rate on the upper class while romney said he'd cut rates across the board by 20% and offset the loss by "closing loopholes." so yea, i do think that there is a difference between those two stances.

It is minor because it amounts to, "We won't raise taxes on the middle class but we will raise taxes on the rich".

Both of their messages were contemporarily Democratic.

Originally posted by Lestov16
I'm so glad that you, from your great financial perspective, represent the vast majority of Americans whose lives these cuts will affect, including the disabled, elderly, and others who are in need of assistance to live. I'm so glad you can callously say "Phuck them! As long as I'm good!" I'm glad to see that is the mindset of the Republican 🙂

My point was, I'm not sacrificing my livelihood so billionaires can prosper. I don't know what all that other stuff is about.

Those "poorer" than I am can get even more cuts and tax breaks than I currently do. Basically, I was pointing out that the picture you were painting just is not true for most of the middle class. No one I know is having to pay tons of taxes each year except for my well-off, unmarried, not-going-to-college, brother.

Originally posted by Digi
That isn't his mindset. You're embellishing his position and putting words in his mouth to villify him. It borders on trolling.

He basically said he shouldn't criticize the GOP for their clearly unethical practices simply because he won't really be affected.

Originally posted by Digi
Think about this: why would the Republican party essentially torpedo its long-term chances at being elected, solely to empower 1-2% of the population?

They have no long-term chances at being elected. The only possible way the public would elect a republican is if that republican was very moderate, and given that the GOP hate moderates, and all the shit they've pulled over roughly the last decade (Bush era, Tea Party, Debt crisis, Fundie anti-rights bills, attacking unions, etc.), I'm not seeing the GOP being re-reelected by many any time soon, unless our country really is that retarded.

Due to the fact that they see that their era of bullshit is coming to a close, they've spitefully decided to go out guns blazing and destroy as much of the US economy as they can before they're out. You don't think they're willing to torpedo their credibility to protect their precious 2% 😆 They nearly put us into default. They put our economy and the economy of several other nations at serious risk for their 2%. They don't care about the majority of Americans or serving them. They only care about the ones with money, like the Koch Brothers. To the GOP, the government is a business you can profit from, rather than an institution which protects the livelihood of it's citizens

Originally posted by Digi
It's not a viable long-term model

😆 You think GOP runs on logic? After the bullshit storm of the last 4 years, from the Tea Party to Romney, you think Republicans are working off a viable model?

Originally posted by Digi
both parties do have a general hope of creating well-being for Americans. They just go about it in different ways.

And the Republican way involves attacking basic rights and unions to benefit their billionaire financial backers, and holding our economy hostage (for the second time, the first nearly causing us to go into default) not for any logical reason but purely to spite Obama. Once again, look at the economic reform they obstructed:

And let's not forget about the disability rights bill they just attempted to suppress. Doesn't look like they were looking to create any "well-being". Sorry if I don't take your word for it.

Originally posted by Digi
All you're doing is repeating Dem. rhetoric.

I don't care about democrats. I care about the fact that the GOP are acting against the majority of the citizens it is sworn to serve. Like I said, democrats aren't attacking unions and rights because the Koch brothers told them to.

Originally posted by Digi
Also relevant, the middle class would likely be ok under either party.

I'm sure we would have been just fine under Mitt Romney, or his runner up, the oh-so-ok Rick Santorum 😆 (let's not even talk about Ron Paul because GOP clearly didn't support him)

If americans were smart, understood basic economics and werent a bunch of children trying to suck the teet of the nanny state, they wouldnt want the democrats or republicans anymore. They're dinosaurs.

Originally posted by Mairuzu
If americans were smart, understood basic economics and werent a bunch of children trying to suck the teet of the nanny state, they wouldnt want the democrats or republicans anymore. They're dinosaurs.

Who would they want?

There's actually evidence to suggest that a two-party system creates less extremism than a multi-party system, and that it's easier to talk between parties when there's less.

Originally posted by Digi
There's actually evidence to suggest that a two-party system creates less extremism than a multi-party system, and that it's easier to talk between parties when there's less.

and then one looks at most parliamentary systems around the world and their relative lack of ineffectiveness compared to the American system

Originally posted by Digi
Think about this: why would the Republican party essentially torpedo its long-term chances at being elected, solely to empower 1-2% of the population?

Originally posted by Tzeentch._
That's what they're doing, though

👆

In a pure move of spite, because they see that people much rather support the party that doesn't unnecessarily violate their rights for the welfare of billionaire CEOs rather than the majority of the people, the GOP are clearly and intentionally trying to tank our economy to the ground so Obama will have a stained legacy

To DDM, Digi, and all the other GOP supporters on here, why are you standing up for them? It's very blatant that our economy is in the shitter mainly because of them. They ravaged our economy and then intentionally obstructed all attempts at reform for no logical reason. I can understand wanting to be neutral, not wanting to be labeled a Republican or a Democrat, but even from a neutral standpoint, how can you accept the disgusting actions of the GOP?

Originally posted by dadudemon
It is minor because it amounts to, "We won't raise taxes on the middle class but we will raise taxes on the rich".

Both of their messages were contemporarily Democratic.

by making that distinction, you effectively limit where the tax money can come from, and how much of it you can really squeeze out. rhetorically, this distinction might not make much of a difference to your average joe. but i think that romney had to take a stand against raising tax rates (because he is a republican) but also had to give the impression that he wasn't just trying to protect the rich (because he was running for president) and thus his plan makes perfect sense from that perspective.

and once again... when you look at the demands being made right now, while not in on the campaign trail, the two sides clearly don't see eye to eye on taxes nor spending on social programs.

One criticism that I do have about Obama is how he agreed with Romney that he disliked corporate tax hikes, despite the fact that corporations are flourishing better than ever.

Still, that doesn't excuse the Republican assault on the US economy and livelihood over the last few years that has brought us to the economic turmoil we presently face.

Originally posted by Lestov16
To DDM, Digi, and all the other GOP supporters on here,

Cool story, bro.

Originally posted by Lestov16
One criticism that I do have about Obama is how he agreed with Romney that he disliked corporate tax hikes, despite the fact that corporations are flourishing better than ever.

Your despite "fact" is false:

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/corporate-profits-fall-for-first-time-since-recession/

Originally posted by Lestov16
Still, that doesn't excuse the Republican assault on the US economy and livelihood over the last few years that has brought us to the economic turmoil we presently face.

Is this another "blame the Recession on Bush" comment? Be direct in your statements. 🙂

Greatest story ever told.

Originally posted by Lestov16
Greatest story ever told.

Well, don't quit your day job because your fiction material is shit. I edited my post: check it out. 🙂