Originally posted by Lestov16
But in all seriousness, you guys seem to support the GOP, or at least defend them
Defending something doesn't equate to support by default. If you said "Hitler hated and tortured animals", I'd point out that when in came to animals, Hitler was very pro animal rights/defense. Doesn't mean I agree with his stances on racial and societal group superiority.
Originally posted by Lestov16
But in all seriousness, you guys seem to support the GOP, or at least defend them, simply so you can appear as "neutral" rather than a strict democrat. The thing is that the GOP are doing things that even a neutral individual should find reprehensible.
It's not that we don't disagree with the GOP. I hate a lot of what they've done recently. It's that you're a caricature of their detractors, reiterating rhetoric instead of trying to understand why someone might back the Republicans or identify as one. You're polarizing and insulting.
Originally posted by Digi
It's not that we don't disagree with the GOP. I hate a lot of what they've done recently.
Then why are you defending them?
Originally posted by Digi
It's that you're a caricature of their detractors, reiterating rhetoric
So you're defending them to spite me? 😕
Rhetoric? 😂 No. How about fact?
Are you saying the GOP
- aren't holding our economy hostage right now, refusing to raise the debt ceiling unless Obama unnecessarily cuts into federal programs, such as Social Security and Medicaid, rather than increase the taxes of the wealthy elite on a level that wouldn't even really affect them
-didn't hold our economy hostage last year, almost causing our economy to go into default and cause a major international crisis
-didn't halt various potentially progressive economic reforms purely to spite Obama
-didn't run a campaign with an utter scumbag businessman Mitt Romney, which was based entirely on lies (and let's not forget their attempts to block voting almost on Grandfather Clause levels)
-didn't just try to attack unions in Michigan so that they would have smaller influence in elections
-don't support such fun ideas as "self-deportation", anti-abortion, and anti-homosexuality
-don't try to get states to educate children that the universe was created by an invisible sky wizard
Because if that's what you're saying, I'd have to disagree 🙂
Originally posted by Digi
instead of trying to understand why someone might back the Republicans or identify as one.
Exactly, I'm trying to find out why someone would associate themself with a group who perform such reprehensible actions. Even you just said you don't support them 😉
Originally posted by Digi
You're polarizing and insulting.
I'm insulting to the bastards who are destroying our country? Really?😱
Originally posted by Robtard
Defending something doesn't equate to support by default. If you said "Hitler hated and tortured animals", I'd point out that when in came to animals, Hitler was very pro animal rights/defense. Doesn't mean I agree with his stances on racial and societal group superiority.
Yes but in the context of your example, I am talking directly about his genocide.
The things I am accusing the GOP of doing are not false at all. I'm not accusing them of stealing lollipops. I'm calling them out for putting us in the financial crisis we are in now for no good reason, which is exactly what they are doing/did. They destroyed our economy under the Bush era, halted all attempts at economic reform, almost destroyed our economy in 2011, ran an utter scumbag of a presidential-elect (and that was their best) on a campaign of nothing but lies, and now are once again holding our country hostage. Once again, remember, they ran a campaign of complete bullshit.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Yes but in the context of your example, I am talking directly about his genocide.The things I am accusing the GOP of doing are not false at all. I'm not accusing them of stealing lollipops. I'm calling them out for putting us in the financial crisis we are in now for no good reason, which is exactly what they are doing/did. They destroyed our economy under the Bush era, halted all attempts at economic reform, almost destroyed our economy in 2011, ran an utter scumbag of a presidential-elect (and that was their best) on a campaign of nothing but lies, and now are once again holding our country hostage. Once again, remember, they ran a campaign of complete bullshit.
And in the context they're replying with: "No, incorrect, Hitler didn't kill 6 billion Jews, he killed 6 million Jews."
Which is in no way defending Hitler.
Originally posted by Robtard
And in the context they're replying with: "No, incorrect, Hitler didn't kill 6 billion Jews, he killed 6 million Jews."Which is in no way defending Hitler.
And in the context I'm not saying he killed 6 billion Jews, I'm saying he killed 11 million people, which he did. Just like I'm saying the GOP are holding us hostage, which they are. This isn't a complex situation where that has to be viewed from multiple angles and perspectives to reach a conclusion. The GOP are clearly acting against the welfare of the American majority and against economic and social reform.
Originally posted by dadudemon
That is not what factcheck.org came up with. In fact, looks like the shit smells just as stinky from the dems side, too. 🙂
The dems had a plan. Even if it wasn't a perfect plan, it was a reasonable one. GOP didn't even have that. They essentially said "keep letting the rich do what they do and we'll make no reforms, and the problem will just work itself out". The democrats never squeezed out a turd that big.
And again, why is your only defense of the GOP saying "the democrats did bad stuff too"?
Originally posted by Lestov16
The dems had a plan. Even if it wasn't a perfect plan, it was a reasonable one. GOP didn't even have that. They essentially said "keep letting the rich do what they do and we'll make no reforms, and the problem will just work itself out". The democrats never squeezed out a turd that big.And again, why is your only defense of the GOP saying "the democrats did bad stuff too"?
Are you old enough to vote?
Republicans will likely bounce back to relevancy within the next decade, similarly to how Democrats bounced back after Regan with Clinton when many felt the party was dead. They will absolutely have to shift many of their ideas, though, especially those involving social issues, as they are becoming farther and farther from the values that the majority of the nation believes and are becoming increasingly impossible to defend through logical means. They're already trying to do this. They could even bounce back in four years depending on how Obama does in his final term.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Then why are you defending them?
I'm not. I'm trying to level out your approach so that you're not so polarizing and jaded. Arguments exist for Republican positions or against Democrats ones outside of hate-filled rhetoric and some infographic memes.
Originally posted by Lestov16
Exactly, I'm trying to find out why someone would associate themself with a group who perform such reprehensible actions. Even you just said you don't support them 😉
Perhaps because they believe in the central tenets of capitalism, and subscribe to a philosophy of small government spending/involvement. Or they're devoutly Christian, and see a country founded and/or modeled on Christian principles as they best for public welfare. Or they don't see the need to redistribute wealth to such a degree as others, so long as basic needs are met for all.
Of course, the Republican party isn't perfect at those things, far from it in some cases. But, historically, that's what they've represented, and it has a credible backing in the country.
Originally posted by Lestov16
I'm insulting to the bastards who are destroying our country? Really?😱
No. To posters on KMC. You've allowed yourself to engage in hyperbole to characterize posters as selfish or ignorant, without actually confronting them on a personal, rational level. Politicians are in the public spotlight; they can take it, and should be scrutinized. Individually, though, arguments can be handled with more tact, especially when you're not currently arguing against any of the political bogeymen you're railing against. Earlier, for one example (among others), you lumped together the entire thread and claimed we were only trying to seem moderate. As if "seeming" anything on the internet even matters.
If people who voted for Obama - I don't count myself among those either, but that's beside the point - are arguing with you, perhaps it's not your message but your method that needs work.
Originally posted by Digi
I'm not. I'm trying to level out your approach so that you're not so polarizing and jaded.
How am I jaded? The GOP have been screwing over our economy for years. This is a blatant irrefutable fact. I haven't accused them of anything they haven't done. I'm calling them out for the crap that they have.
Originally posted by Digi
Arguments exist for Republican positions or against Democrats ones outside of hate-filled rhetoric and some infographic memes.
Then why haven't you posted any? Again, are you denying the negative effect the GOP has had on our government these past years? And if not, how do you justify it?
Originally posted by Digi
Perhaps because they believe in the central tenets of capitalism, and subscribe to a philosophy of small government spending/involvement. Or they're devoutly Christian, and see a country founded and/or modeled on Christian principles as they best for public welfare. Or they don't see the need to redistribute wealth to such a degree as others, so long as basic needs are met for all.
So I should excuse their reprehensible behavior because it's supposedly motivated by good intentions (even though it clearly isn't)?
Originally posted by Digi
Of course, the Republican party isn't perfect at those things, far from it in some cases. But, historically, that's what they've represented, and it has a credible backing in the country.
And that credibility is waining fast. Who cares what they were like 100 years ago. Democrats were KKK, for Pete's sake. We're talking about now. Republicans are outdated and obsolete. Like I said, a moderate Republican would be good, but the GOP seem to hate progressive politicians. Just look at how they treated Ron Paul. Paul probably isn't the best politician, and I probably would have voted for Obama over him, but at least he would have been a credible candidate. But no, the GOP actually insulted America's intelligence and tried to run lying turd Mitt Romney.
Originally posted by Digi
No. To posters on KMC. You've allowed yourself to engage in hyperbole to characterize posters as selfish or ignorant, without actually confronting them on a personal, rational level.
Um, no. I came on here calling out the GOP for the shit they've pulled over the last few years, and you guys essentially said that they don't deserve that criticism. Please forgive me for being shocked that you are defending such horrible people
Originally posted by Digi
[B]Politicians are in the public spotlight; they can take it, and should be scrutinized. [ /B]
But yet you seem upset when I scrutinize them
Originally posted by Digi
[B] Individually, though, arguments can be handled with more tact, [ /B]
Again, I get surprised when I'm told to be understanding to a group of people who seem to be against the majority of the American public
Originally posted by Digi
[B] especially when you're not currently arguing against any of the political bogeymen you're railing against. [ /B]
😆 "bogeymen", again acting like this is some myth that the GOP have been ruining our economy, rather than what's clearly happening.
Originally posted by Digi
[B] Earlier, for one example (among others), you lumped together the entire thread and claimed we were only trying to seem moderate.[ /B]
Well you are defending Republicans, but at the same time, you are staunchly calling yourself not-a-Republican and not supportive of Republican ideals as they exist today, so again, please forgive me for assuming that you are trying to maintain neutrality. I just call it as I see it. You especially imply it, with posts such as these:
Originally posted by Digi
[B] If people who voted for Obama - I don't count myself among those either, but that's beside the point[ /B]
You sure about that? 😉
Originally posted by dadudemon
Are you old enough to vote?
Yes.
The real question to me should be though: "Are you a New Yorker (one of the states that will be hardest hit) whose loved ones rely on federal programs like Social Security and Medicaid, that are about to be unnecessarily cut so some billionaire can make more money than they need?" And my answer to that would also be Yes.
Originally posted by Digi
polarizing
😆
You call me polarizing? All I did was call the GOP out on the bullshit they've been doing over the past few years. You're the one who started talking about Democrats and promoting partisanship, as you seem to think that eveyrone who criticizes the GOP is a generic democrat, rather than someone who is disgusted with the blatantly-disgusting policies of the GOP. You seem certain that Anti-GOP=Democrat. You're the one trying to promote a war between Democrats and GOP, rather than promote government reform. If there's anyone polarizing here, it's you.
Originally posted by Lestov16I feel like the other posters here have pretty much exposed your hateful self, but I wanted to point out you're a fool if you think Romney was the Republicans best.
I forgot also, they actually ran that turd Mitt Romney, who ran a campaign based entirely on lies and fear-mongering. I don't know what's worse: the fact that he actually had a majority in some states (even if you [b]hate Obama, there is no possible way you could see Romney leading this country's path into a positive outcome) or the fact that Republicans thought we were stupid enough not to see through his bullshit facade.And it's even more hilarious because Romney was the best they could come up with, and the runner-up, Rick Santorum, is now working with some conspiracy/scam website, Rick Perry releasing horrifically homophobic ads, and all the other cretins from the primaries.
My question is why is it this way? How did we allow our Congress turn into our worst enemy? Who is voting these people in? Why can't we produce better politicians? The Republican Party has actually dissolved into Tammany Hall, with Boehner serving as Tweed. [/B]
As sad as it is to say no real Republican candidates were going to run this year because of politics and playing the game of it.
The odds of beating an incumbent president are extremely hard to do historically, and once you've run once and lost any aspirations of Presidency are over.
So most of the legit A-tier Republican Candidates weren't going to run this year cause it wouldn't have been statistically in their best interests to do so.