Battle of Helm's Deep. Epic Movie Warriors edition.

This is the Battle of Helm's Deep as seen in Two Towers. But instead of the original defenders, they get replaced by:

General Maximus (leader) from Gladiator
Conan from Conan the Barbarian (original)
Mathayus from Scorpion King
Achilles and 50 Myrmidons from Troy
Paris and 100 Trojan Archers from Troy
King Leonidas and the 300 Spartans from 300
All 13 warriors from 13th Warrior
Balian and 50 Fully Geared Knight horsemen from Kingdom of Heaven

Everyone will be armed with steel weapons, armor and shielding instead of the bronze/copper that would be prevalent in their time (only if it improves their current gear). To not handicap their weapons skills, the items are still in the form of the equipment that they are used to.

However, unlike the Two Towers, they do NOT get rescued by Gandalf in the end. Can this force beat the odds??

Achilles solos.

Originally posted by Mindset
Achilles solos.

The New Conan would slaughter as well.

Also balian was pretty damn good at strategy along with the defensive capabilities of leo's 300. If the uruks somehow manage to set the bomb off(unlikeley) Leos 300 block the entrance with the phalanx. Not a single uruk would get through that.

Originally posted by omgchos
Also balian was pretty damn good at strategy along with the defensive capabilities of leo's 300. If the uruks somehow manage to set the bomb off(unlikeley) Leos 300 block the entrance with the phalanx. Not a single uruk would get through that.

👆

They lose eventually, Balain was good at delaying things but he was never going to win his fight he just needed to make it at as costly as possible so he could negotiate terms with the Muslims.

The Persain Archers were not better than Elven Archers

Achilles is a very skilled fighter but not better than any of the LOTR fighters imo.

The 300 would be overrun from the sheer tidal wave of monsters coming at them. Plus the Uru-Kai were much better armed and organized than what the Spartans fought. The Immortals were able to kill a few Spartans I think the Uru-kai were much better than them.

They may kill many but the forces will get over run.

Originally posted by Newjak
They lose eventually, Balain was good at delaying things but he was never going to win his fight he just needed to make it at as costly as possible so he could negotiate terms with the Muslims.

The Persain Archers were not better than Elven Archers

Achilles is a very skilled fighter but not better than any of the LOTR fighters imo.

The 300 would be overrun from the sheer tidal wave of monsters coming at them. Plus the Uru-Kai were much better armed and organized than what the Spartans fought. The Immortals were able to kill a few Spartans I think the Uru-kai were much better than them.

They may kill many but the forces will get over run.

Originally posted by omgchos
The immortals only kllled any spartans because of the fail battle plan that they used for no apparent reason. If they had stuck to the phalanx leo and his 300 woulda pwnt.

And I only use it as a reference cause the Uru-Kai were better equipped, more dangerous and more numerous than the Immortals.

I don't think the 300 would do well against them not nearly enough to sway this fight.

Originally posted by Newjak
Possibly even though the Immortals were over matched they still seemed to present some challenge to the Spartans even after they formed up.

And I only use it as a reference cause the Uru-Kai were better equipped, more dangerous and more numerous than the Immortals.

I don't think the 300 would do well against them not nearly enough to sway this fight.

Originally posted by omgchos
My point is that you have the uruks in the same hard spot they were in the movie. They have to get through the wall. If the 300 are chillin in the courtyard beyond the deeping wall, the second the bomb goes off theyll be ready to set up the guard. No one ver actually got through the phalanx. The only time they lost was when the persians knew the goat path and surrounded them with archers and soldiers. From a frontal standpoint they are as far as we know impenitrable. The uruks had basically the same equipment as the immortals besides the fact that the immortals had leather armor. The only hope the uruk hai have is climbing the wall with their ladders. Which is unlikely as even some unskilled humans managed to prevent that.

The difference is that the Uru-Kai are more numerous, better organized, better equipped.

The Uru-Kai were head to toe covered in armor, physically powerful, and equipped with spears and shields of of their own.

It wasn't just a few rag tag humans keeping them at bay. There were a whole group of Elves helping to defend Helm's deep and those elves would have made mence meat out of the 300 spartans.

Originally posted by Newjak
They were only in the Phanalanx once or twice throughout the whole movie, it was used against under equipped hordes charging into them.

The difference is that the Uru-Kai are more numerous, better organized, better equipped.

The Uru-Kai were head to toe covered in armor, physically powerful, and equipped with spears and shields of of their own.

It wasn't just a few rag tag humans keeping them at bay. There were a whole group of Elves helping to defend Helm's deep and those elves would have made mence meat out of the 300 spartans.

Originally posted by omgchos
They almost exclusively used the phalanx unless they had broken up the forces that beseeched them. In which case they wrecked what was left. Also when they let their athosian buddies out to brawl.

There's the initial charge, you can maybe count once they reorganize against the Immortals, and when they drive the people off the cliff.

After that when do they use it like in the opening?

Almost all of their fighting except for those are in open formations showing very cool fighting choreography.

Originally posted by Newjak
Okay name all the times they are actually shown in a phanalax formation in the movie where they were fighting people?

There's the initial charge, you can maybe count once they reorganize against the Immortals, and when they drive the people off the cliff.

After that when do they use it like in the opening?

Almost all of their fighting except for those are in open formations showing very cool fighting choreography.

They use the phalanx for a vast majority of the battle as stated by the narrator(david wenham). The instances you're referring to are those times when they battled a foe out of the ordinary, such as rhinoceros, chicks with g'nades and for some reason when the immortals showed up. In the case of the immortals they faught them on equal ground and then re-formed the phalanx. When the re-grouped into formation they utterly owned them. The phalanx itself was never broken and we know they use it in the case of foot soldiers attacking them. Once the wall goes down they'll form up and easily keep the uruk hai at bay. Their armor doesnt make them invulnerable. Even Theodin managed to get one in the neck with a spear. The ork-men never showed strength feats greater than that of the persians. They were as any other orc army. They just happened to outnumber the forces at helms deep quite considerably. The 300 managed to take down hundreds of thousands of the persians irrc from david's narration.

The humans in this scenario will actually hold up better than the humans in the original helm's deep. But losing the elves is a big blow though. Paris and his archers are a pale comparison to legolas and the elven archers.

Achilles, Conan, and Mathayus all can take out hordes of Urukai. Maximus and Balain will prove better at tactics than that Rohan king. Leonidas' 300 and the 13 warriors will definitely be hard to take down.

But in the end, I still think they fall due to being severely outnumbered. The Urukai were mentioned to be "at least 10 thousand strong". And even if the 300 can bottle neck the breach in the wall like an above poster mentioned, the defenders would then lack the proper number to defend the other parts of the wall.

Without Gandalf and his troop hitting the Urukai from the rear to eventually save the day, I say the defenders make a better stand than the original group from the movie but will eventually get overwhelmed or just drop dead from plain exhaustion.

Originally posted by omgchos
They use the phalanx for a vast majority of the battle as stated by the narrator(david wenham). The instances you're referring to are those times when they battled a foe out of the ordinary, such as rhinoceros, chicks with g'nades and for some reason when the immortals showed up. In the case of the immortals they faught them on equal ground and then re-formed the phalanx. When the re-grouped into formation they utterly owned them. The phalanx itself was never broken and we know they use it in the case of foot soldiers attacking them. Once the wall goes down they'll form up and easily keep the uruk hai at bay. Their armor doesnt make them invulnerable. Even Theodin managed to get one in the neck with a spear. The ork-men never showed strength feats greater than that of the persians. They were as any other orc army. They just happened to outnumber the forces at helms deep quite considerably. The 300 managed to take down hundreds of thousands of the persians irrc from david's narration.

The only time we see the Phanalx tested is against a bunch of under equipped armies not used to fighting in organized formations.

That's not exactly a great be all test of it to state it was impenetrable.

Their armor makes most of them pretty well guarded against the Spartan's spears and swords. They also showed pretty good durability without it. The one uruk hai was able to shrug off arrows into him to launch himself at the bomb.

They have cross bows which would help make even more hardships for the spartans. A series of cross bow bolts into the spartans legs would hurt them badly.

Originally posted by FrothByte
The humans in this scenario will actually hold up better than the humans in the original helm's deep. But losing the elves is a big blow though. Paris and his archers are a pale comparison to legolas and the elven archers.

Achilles, Conan, and Mathayus all can take out hordes of Urukai. Maximus and Balain will prove better at tactics than that Rohan king. Leonidas' 300 and the 13 warriors will definitely be hard to take down.

But in the end, I still think they fall due to being severely outnumbered. The Urukai were mentioned to be "at least 10 thousand strong". And even if the 300 can bottle neck the breach in the wall like an above poster mentioned, the defenders would then lack the proper number to defend the other parts of the wall.

Without Gandalf and his troop hitting the Urukai from the rear to eventually save the day, I say the defenders make a better stand than the original group from the movie but will eventually get overwhelmed or just drop dead from plain exhaustion.

Originally posted by Newjak
Yet for the majority of their fights and fighting they are 'shown' to not be in the Phalanx at all.

The only time we see the Phanalx tested is against a bunch of under equipped armies not used to fighting in organized formations.

That's not exactly a great be all test of it to state it was impenetrable.

Their armor makes most of them pretty well guarded against the Spartan's spears and swords. They also showed pretty good durability without it. The one uruk hai was able to shrug off arrows into him to launch himself at the bomb.

They have cross bows which would help make even more hardships for the spartans. A series of cross bow bolts into the spartans legs would hurt them badly.

Originally posted by omgchos
They have the manpower to pull this off. The 300 can at the very least kill id say half if they are very unlucky. Another 10% are easily taken down by the arches while Leo and his spartans hold the uruks at bay. Bailian and the Spaniard would easily be able to outsmart the ladder units and instruct archers to periodically take down those trying to erect them. If not sending forces to knock them down. While you have the 50 men and achiles ready to rape anyone that gets up a ladder or makes it through the deeping wall. Having ample room for a fight in the courtyard. And even if they make it all the way through all of that somehow theres another bottle neck for them in the keep. Their numbers will count for nothing as leo so eloquently put it.

The Urukai also had siege engines. If the 300 put up a wall of shields in the breach, the Urukai can just aim their catapults at that. Besides, the Urukai had crossbows. The 300 will have a pretty hard time holding off against the Urukai.

Also, putting the 300 to block that breach would cut down the defender's numbers in half. Eventually Urukai would get over the wall (those siege ladders were pretty darn hard to push off) and once they're inside and the fighting becomes 1 on 1, well let's say I'd rather have 300 elves than 300 spartans.

In the Two Towers movie, by the time day break came and the defenders were nearly dead on their feet from exhaustion, the Urukai only lost a small percentage of their number.

Like I said, the defenders in this scenario can probably hold off longer than the original movie, but they will eventually fall from exhaustion.

IN the 300 movie, the persians never attacked the spartans continuously. They'd send different groups from their army against the 300 at different times of the day, which gave the 300 time to rest in between the attacks. This scenario is different, the Urukai will be launching a continuous attack that no man can hope to keep on standing against unless given respite.

If you guys were Maxiumus, what would be the optimal deployment of your troops (not knowing about the Urukbomb)?

Can Mathayus stop the Urukbomb where Legolas failed?

Wouldn't the keep be a better defensible position for the spartans?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
If you guys were Maxiumus, what would be the optimal deployment of your troops (not knowing about the Urukbomb)?

Can Mathayus stop the Urukbomb where Legolas failed?

Wouldn't the keep be a better defensible position for the spartans?

But No if Legolas fails you don't get much better than him, other than Hawkeye. 😛

No the Hot gates had one main entrance and one hidden path.

Helm's deep has multiple areas to enter from via bomb, ladders or front entrance. Plenty of places to surround the Spartans.