Once the castle wall is breached, the only team to stand a chance are the 300 Spartans and their phalanx of death.
Problem is, the Uruks also had scaling ladders, so eventually they'd take the Spartans from the rear (teehee) and they'd eventually fall from having to fight on all fronts.
And lol, "300 against 10,000." -Legolas.
Originally posted by Newjak
I won't answer the first one.But No if Legolas fails you don't get much better than him, other than Hawkeye. 😛
No the Hot gates had one main entrance and one hidden path.
Helm's deep has multiple areas to enter from via bomb, ladders or front entrance. Plenty of places to surround the Spartans.
Not a question of accuracy (where Legolas is FAR superior in), tho. More a question of stopping power. Mathias' bow has flung full grown men like they were hit by a speeding car. I can certainly imagine it taking out an Uruk Zerker in one or two shots.
The Keep proper had one entrance, too, tho. At the end of the movie, the Uruk's were banging at the door and couldn't get in by using their catapults (due to it being too high up) IMO as they used battering rams instead.
They used up their stock of explosive on the wall, tho (I think).
Originally posted by Darth MartinFeats man,
I say he's better than all of them. Legolas is a debate but in melee combat, up close, Achilles is better. Not that that means anything here.
Achilles was the best fighter in Troy but even he couldn't just plow through Hector without some difficulty and Hector had trouble with Ajax.
The LOTR characters were crazy with what they fought.
Aragorn, Legolas, even Gimili had some pretty crazy feats taking on Trolls, hordes of Goblins, Worgs, Elephants.
Plus the Uruk Kai army has crossbows something the 300 will have a tough time standing up to.
There is a reason why the Phalanx became outdated in history.
It wasnt because of crosbows, lol. In all actuallity even the confederates considered using spears in the civil war which is a staple of the phallanx. They used it all the way up to the 16-17th century. It got phased out at one point due to romans taking over after alexander the great. They already had their own tactics, and still adopted the phllanx in one way or another. And it ultimately got permanently phased out with the rise of the bayonet.
Originally posted by omgchosI didn't say phased out I said outdated especially as a stand alone tactic.
It wasnt because of crosbows, lol. In all actuallity even the confederates considered using spears in the civil war which is a staple of the phallanx. They used it all the way up to the 16-17th century. It got phased out at one point due to romans taking over after alexander the great. They already had their own tactics, and still adopted the phllanx in one way or another. And it ultimately got permanently phased out with the rise of the bayonet.
It was because the weaknesses of the Phanalax were beginning to become known and exploitable.
Using long range reliable weapons has been a way of wearing down the Phalanx before.
Crossbows are also good at helping large groups of people shoot into tightly knit formations much like the Spartan Phalanx.
The defenders simply don't have the numbers to defend everything.
Plus technologically speaking the Uruk Hai warriors are superior to most of the units with only the Medieval Knights and Balian possessing similar tech.
Originally posted by Newjak
I didn't say phased out I said outdated.It was because the weaknesses of the Phanalax were beginning to become known and exploitable.
Using long range reliable weapons has been a way of wearing down the Phalanx before.
Crossbows are also good at helping large groups of people shoot into tightly knit formations much like the Spartan Phalanx.
The defenders simply don't have the numbers to defend everything.
Plus technologically speaking the Uruk Hai warriors are superior to most of the units with only the Medieval Knights and Balian possessing similar tech.
Armor/weapons/shields were updated to be made out of steel, tho. Just to update their weaponry.
Originally posted by NibedicusJust because you update the metal they use doesn't their mean technology has increased.
Armor/weapons/shields were updated to be made out of steel, tho. Just to update their weaponry.
If you have people in duel and you give one a flintlock pistol and the other revolver and say the pistol has been updated to fire the same ammunition as the revolver that doesn't mean the flintlock pistol itself is as technological as the revolver.
The Greek Warriors would still have massively exposed areas of flesh, they would still not have crossbows which are Armor piercing weapons.
They still don't have siege weapons to match the Uruk Hai's seige weapons.
They lack the man power to hold all points of contention.
Originally posted by Newjak
Just because you update the metal they use doesn't their mean technology has increased.If you have people in duel and you give one a flintlock pistol and the other revolver and say the pistol has been updated to fire the same ammunition as the revolver that doesn't mean the flintlock pistol itself is as technological as the revolver.
The Greek Warriors would still have massively exposed areas of flesh, they would still not have crossbows which are Armor piercing weapons.
They still don't have siege weapons to match the Uruk Hai's seige weapons.
They lack the man power to hold all points of contention.
The only thing that the knights have techwise (due to the materials upgrade) vs the phalanx would be chainmail, tho. And that can do very little against crossbows anyway.
Big steel shields in a tigh formation would help, tho
I mentioned defending the upper keep that they used at tbe end of Two Towers (w/c seemed too high in for their laddes/catapults as they were only using battering rams vs the door). It had one entrance connected only by a high narrow bridge. Easily defensible.
Also, I have an argument about Mathayus' bow stopping the Uruo Zerker who triggered the bomb to breach the main wall (see above pls).
Originally posted by NewjakThe Greek Warriors would still have massively exposed areas of flesh, they would still not have crossbows which are Armor piercing weapons.
They still don't have siege weapons to match the Uruk Hai's seige weapons.
They lack the man power to hold all points of contention.
The uruks dont have crossbows, event the far superior equiped forces of mordor didn't have crossbow. Ur thinking of the ballista that they used to fire the grappling hooks for the pull up ladders. Which if i may point out was not how the uruks ultimately penetrated the castle. Even when Gandalf and crew showed up not a single arrow was given that day. Also the uruk that killed boromir wasnt using a crossbow either.
Their seige weapons only ended working even slightly because of sheer numbers, which is all they really have in this fight. Without bows of any kind i dont see them getting through the phalanx, which btw outdated is the same thing as phased out. Thats what you do to something that is outdated or you have no need for. But as i said it wasnt truly phased out until the 16th century.
This is your only valid point but as the movie versions of achiles and his myrmidons were OP in the movie( he was said to be unbeatable in the the myth, tho that is irrelevant here), and Leo + his 300 were almost meta human, they deffintely will stand up to the surprisingly easy to kill giant orc men.
Originally posted by omgchos
The uruks dont have crossbows
Originally posted by NibedicusThey also have better Armor Design and weapons better designed for fighting against Heavily Armored foes I also think some of the Knight from Kingdom of Heaven were using their own Crossbows.
The only thing that the knights have techwise (due to the materials upgrade) vs the phalanx would be chainmail, tho. And that can do very little against crossbows anyway.Big steel shields in a tigh formation would help, tho
I mentioned defending the upper keep that they used at tbe end of Two Towers (w/c seemed too high in for their laddes/catapults as they were only using battering rams vs the door). It had one entrance connected only by a high narrow bridge. Easily defensible.
Also, I have an argument about Mathayus' bow stopping the Uruo Zerker who triggered the bomb to breach the main wall (see above pls).
It doesn't matter if they decide to protect the High Keep. They would leave the rest of the area undefended and would end up surrounded and they still don't have an answer for the Invading forces Crossbows.
Also it doesn't matter if Mathayus could stop the one Berserker, cause even if he did they could just send in two after that. Either way that bomb is going off.
Originally posted by Newjak
They also have better Armor Design and weapons better designed for fighting against Heavily Armored foes I also think some of the Knight from Kingdom of Heaven were using their own Crossbows.It doesn't matter if they decide to protect the High Keep. They would leave the rest of the area undefended and would end up surrounded and they still don't have an answer for the Invading forces Crossbows.
They won't get surrounded defending the high keep's entrance, tho. It's a sealed structure with only one entrance (a narrow elevated bridge).
I just see thick steel tower shields locked together capable of blocking crossbow bolts.
Originally posted by NibedicusYeah they will as long as we are thinking the same things. There were multiple areas to get into the position they were blocking the main entrance with.
They won't get surrounded defending the high keep's entrance, tho. It's a sealed structure with only one entrance (a narrow elevated bridge).I just see thick steel tower shields locked together capable of blocking crossbow bolts.
The Spartans don't have tower shields. They have large rounded shields. That still exposed their lower legs and heads. A team of Uruk hai firing into the Spartan Formation would hurt and disable some of them. It could outright kill others.
And crossbows can pierce steel.