Originally posted by Bat Dude
It could also very well be that this guy is demon-possessed to the toenails and he did it because Satan (or some other demon) posing as God was speaking to him and telling him to. Who the heck knows right now?In the occult, the highest sacrifice one can make is a child. I'm not saying he was an occultist, but you don't have to be an occultist to be possessed. And nothing makes Satan happier than defiling innocence.
It's all gravy, man. I don't think you're dumb/lame for saying something like that. I hold that, in the end, the individual is responsible for the actions...demon or no demon.
Originally posted by Digi
Of course it does. It's a good point. And my "equation" wasn't perfect to begin with. It was essentially just a series of variable, for which we don't have exact values.But it doesn't change the central debate. The point was: the instinctual tendency to believe that putting a gun in the teachers' hands is a good thing, is flawed. Or at least, it's only looking at the side that supports doing it without considering everything else. You're clever enough to realize this, but the way you presented the argument is the way MANY people present the argument, and it's not a fair assessment of the issue.
I don't really have a stance on gun control, much as this may seem that I'm advocating for more of it. I just dislike talking points that aren't comprehensive enough to be balanced.
Well, my question was genuine: I wanted to see if that technology would change how you put together that equation you were making. If it did, then I wanted you to entertain the scales: did it tip it in favor of giving guns to teachers? If it didn't, then I wanted your reasons.
I am still not certain putting a gun in a teacher's hand is bad nor am I certain it is good. Wasn't there a town that required everyone carry a gun? Did that result in more accidental deaths (I genuinely do not know and I can't be arsed to look it up, either).
Don't get the wrong idea: I just got done writing a massive Persuasion-Argumentation presentation for the end of the semester...it was over gun control. I was convinced that assault weapons were unnecessary for the average civilian and I argued that point. I am for gun control but not the elimination of guns. As for putting more guns in more people's hands: I generally do not think that is a good idea. I think getting a gun should require a decent level of proficiency and knowledge: both a shooting test and a written test. I see no reason to put AK's in people's hands, though.
Originally posted by marwash22
yeah, and it doesn't make sense to me.
That's okay: I don't expect it to nor do I require you to agree with me (but it would be nice 🙁 )
Originally posted by marwash22
I don't place value on life based on age, gender, race, intelligence, etc.
Nor do I...except in the case of strangers (no matter who they are) I would prefer the loss of an adult's life over a child's.
Originally posted by marwash22
It's terrible... PERIOD, when people are killed, and to me it comes off as shallow to say it's more tragic when a younger person dies.
Well, the opposite is true: my reason for placing the value is uses an ontological argument and then modifies further to make the point: hardly "shallow".
Maybe you'll change your mind when you have children of your own: you'll see how innocent children really are (up to an extent).
Originally posted by marwash22
I especially think it's nonsense because if it were your mother or some random little kid who was about to be gunned down, i seriously doubt you'd want the kid to be spared.
Wrong: my mother and I have had this discussion before (shortly after 9/11, to be exact). The life of a stranger's kid is more important to my mother than her own life. My brother disagrees, of course: he doesn't "care about some stranger's brat". People are different.
If my mother gave up her life to save a random stranger's child, of course I would be sad...but it wouldn't be as bad if she just died of natural causes.
Originally posted by marwash22
Human life is human life, age shouldn't even be a factor in how you feel about it when it's taken away.
Yeah...that just doesn't work for me. Like I said, a random 5 year old's life is more important to me than my own life if given that circumstance or choice.
Originally posted by marwash22
I'm gonna pretend you didn't equate human and animal life.
Newsflash: humans are animals, too.
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
It could also be that God sent him on an actual divine mission. Mysterious ways.
That could be true...but it would be difficult to justify that action from an omnibenevolent God. Maybe the dude killed a future American version of Hitler? The Watchmen, man....THE WATCHMEN ENDING!
Originally posted by marwash22
okay, so basically, i value all human life equally, and you don't.you disgust me. sneer
No you don't...you made it quite clear you value your family's life more than strangers. 😄
Originally posted by Robtard
So you're saying all death affects you the same; your father dying is no more painful than some dude in Florida that you've never met.That's like some seriously deep spiritual shit, dude.
He's Neo: he's The One.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
This sort of thing never happens in schools in the ghetto, where all the children are already carrying guns. 😖hifty:
That's why Symmetric Chaos's school had armed security. 😖hifty:
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
http://us.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook
Much happier ending to a horrible crap incident than this shooting, of course. Some of those kids...have to be mentally scarred for life in addition to the real scars.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
The USA should make it mandatory for All us citizens 18 and over to possess a firearm at all times and places, shit like this would get shut down quick
And while the gunmen might be put down quicker, it may well lead to more shootings overall.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
My idea is far more realistic and effective.
Because nothing protects children better than four stupid retarded dipshits in a firefight.
Seriously, has your reasoning always been like this or did you have a TBI at some point? White matter injuries make people more violent and more ready to seek out violent solutions to problems you know.
The only way to prevent avenger violence (which this WAS), is to treat mental health and mental checkups the same way we do physical health and to make sure that individuals like this kid or the Virginia Tech kid or James Holmes have permanent mental health checkups since they start shooting people primarily when they lose coverage after switching schools or aging out of coverage. In other words, universal screening and universal healthcare. Everyone should also expect a smaller scale shooting within a week or two since avengers provoke each other on a smaller scale statistically. One successful shooting will give a second avenger enough confidence to attempt the same thing in his own life.
My condolences to the victims and their families.
My initial reaction after getting over the shock was that if this doesn't change things [gun laws] then nothing will.
I'd like to think that this would create some movement in the gun laws but I'm afraid that the usual defensiveness by the pro-gun community would arise and court/legislation proceedings would drag on for years accomplishing nothing. Quite Infuriating.
Originally posted by Tzeentch._
I;m pretty sure Collosus is black.
lol...you had no idea what he was talking about which makes it even funnier. Either that or I "didn't see what you did there."
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Relative to which countries? India and China?
He meant population density. Despite how his posts read, he does not quite have a grasp on English in all circumstances. The higher the population density, the more violent crime there is (not necessarily per capita...I don't think). "...both property and violent crimes were moderately correlated with population density..." http://www.sascv.org/ijcjs/harries.html
Originally posted by Darth Jello
The only way to prevent avenger violence (which this WAS), is to treat mental health and mental checkups the same way we do physical health and to make sure that individuals like this kid or the Virginia Tech kid or James Holmes have permanent mental health checkups since they start shooting people primarily when they lose coverage after switching schools or aging out of coverage. In other words, universal screening and universal healthcare. Everyone should also expect a smaller scale shooting within a week or two since avengers provoke each other on a smaller scale statistically. One successful shooting will give a second avenger enough confidence to attempt the same thing in his own life.
1. Revenge Violence, not avenger violence...well...if what was said earlier in this thread was supposed to correct: he was trying to get back at the system.
2. Your idea is fascist, for sure. However, mandatory mental and physical checkups is not a bad idea. We just do not have the nurses and doctors capable of supporting such a requirement. It would be nice...so many premature deaths could be prevented that way (both for medical as well as criminal related deaths...maybe even suicides, too).
3. I like the idea of universal healthcare. A minimum amount of healthcare for all that goes beyond just preventative healthcare (meaning, beyond annual checkups).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=PezlFNTGWv4
It was right then and it's still right now.
But it's only part of the problem. I still maintain it's symptomatic of how little the US does to tackle mental illness. It will no doubt come out in time, if it hasn't already, that this boy was deeply troubled and severely mentally ill. There were 16 mass shootings in the US between 1999 and 2009. There's been 16 this year alone and over 25 since 2009. Any coincidence that spending on mental health care has dropped $5,000,000,000 in the last 3 years?