DBZ Power Scaling... · Anime / Manga

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by dadudemon
I think I see what you mean.
3 Billion * 2 * 4 = 24,000,000,000
Yes. That is exactly what that means: no power increase. I guess that's why that scan can't be right/is non-canon. I suspected it was non-canon when I saw it. The Dragonball wiki, where the biggest and nerdiest fans keep up to date, don't list that.

Considering how well the kili reading Babidi gave us(Yakon=800, Goku=3,000) matches up with the PLs listed in that guide(Yakon=800 million, Goku= 3 billion---ie. 1 kili=1 million), I am quite confident now that the PL given for SSJ Goku is from the Buu Saga, not the Cell Saga. In the Cell Saga it was alluded to (in both the anime and the manga) that SSJ Gohan was more powerful than SSJ Goku-- yet the guide still credits Goku as being more powerful. Why else would it credit Goku as more powerful unless that is SSJ Goku from the Buu Saga? After all, we know that Goku became more powerful during this time, while Gohan became less powerful. Additionally, the bottom row of the guide which lists SSJ kid Gohan, SSJ Vegeta and Cell also lists Super Buu, SSJ3 Goku and Gotenks(a mixture of characters from both sagas.)

And btw, I found that guide on the DB wiki. 😉

Kento The last Hokage

http://www.kanzentai.com/bp.php?id=fake

xD That sight says it's fake. BUT on the other hand if it is, the person who did it does do the multipliers well and had to put some effort into it. But also if the kili thing is right, then Freeza couldn't destroy a planet. Cause you'd need 300 Million.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Kento
http://www.kanzentai.com/bp.php?id=fake
xD That sight says it's fake. BUT on the other hand if it is, the person who did it does do the multipliers well and had to put some effort into it.

Hm, essentially the basis for that site calling the guide fake is that it was geared more towards adults(from a literary standpoint) than kids, and it had some minor wording differences? Seems like they're nitpicking a bit, imo. We know all of the PLs up to the Frieza saga are correct because they can be confirmed by other sources--- whereas we have no way to compare the other PLs referenced, because no other guide that I've seen references PLs beyond the Frieza saga. However, even if you just use logical estimations based on what we know and what we saw, the PLs in that guide would be extremely accurate.

What throws me off is that the guide was definitely published in some sort of physical book/magazine/manga, as it looks like someone took a picture of the page itself, or crudely scanned it. Regardless, even if that guide is fake, I still see no reason to doubt the validity of the values it displays. /shrug

Originally posted by Kento
But also if the kili thing is right, then Freeza couldn't destroy a planet. Cause you'd need 300 Million.

The "300 kilis is required to destroy a planet" comment that Dabura made in the anime isn't in the manga. Therefore it is a non-canon comment.

Kento The last Hokage

Originally posted by Galan007
Hm, essentially the basis for that site calling the guide fake is that it was geared more towards adults(from a literary standpoint) than kids, and it had some minor wording differences? Seems like they're nitpicking a bit, imo. We know all of the PLs up to the Frieza saga are correct because they can be confirmed by other sources--- whereas we have no way to compare the other PLs referenced, because no other guide that I've seen references PLs beyond the Frieza saga. However, even if you just use logical estimations based on what we know and what we saw, the PLs in that guide would be extremely accurate.
What throws me off is that the guide was definitely published in some sort of physical book/magazine/manga, as it looks like someone took a picture of the page itself, or crudely scanned it. Regardless, even if that guide is fake, I still see no reason to doubt the validity of the values it displays. /shrug
The "300 kilis is required to destroy a planet" comment that Dabura made in the anime isn't in the manga. Therefore it is a non-canon comment.

They also have the power level guide from the Daizenshuu 7 on that sight though. Which only really covers up to Freeza saga, but has the multipliers for the ssj forms.

Also even if Daburas line is non-canon Daizenshuu 7 says 300 kili can destroy 2 planets.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Kento
They also have the power level guide from the Daizenshuu 7 on that sight though. Which only really covers up to Freeza saga

Yeah, I've seen those guides. They don't really help here, as the guide I posted mirrors them perfectly.

Originally posted by Kento
but has the multipliers for the ssj forms.

Yup, as well as the multiplier for Potara fusions--- I posted that stuff in the OP.

According to the Daizenshuu, a Potara fusion is like multiplying PLs together, rather then simply adding them. According to that info, if the 2 beings fusing each had a PL of 1 million(a completely insignificant PL in the Buu era), the complete fusion would have a PL of 1,000,000,000,000(1 million*1 million=1 trillion.)

Now imagine if the 2 beings each started with a base PL of HUNDREDS of MILLIONS, and/or BILLIONS(as Buu era Vegeta and Goku did.) Imagine the PL THAT fusion(Vegito) would have. Insane.

Originally posted by Kento
Also even if Daburas line is non-canon Daizenshuu 7 says 300 kili can destroy 2 planets.

It does? I've never seen that.

Gecko4lif Senior Member

Power level means absolutely nothing considering there is no base for it.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

^ More or less. After the Frieza saga power levels became a thing of the past because the Z fighters simply became too strong. All we can do if we want to gauge PLs post-Frieza saga is either use the guide posted earlier(which seems to be very accurate, imo), or come up with self-made approximations based on the last PLs stated in the Daizenshuu, and work up from there(which is what the guide appears to do anyway.)

Kento The last Hokage

Originally posted by Galan007
Now imagine if the 2 beings each started with a base PL of HUNDREDS of MILLIONS, and/or BILLIONS(as Buu era Vegeta and Goku did.) Imagine the PL THAT fusion(Vegito) would have. Insane.
It does? I've never seen that.

Which is weird that GohanxGoku would've been weaker than Vegetto was. 😆

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Kili
http://magikarp46.com/dragonball/guidebooks/07-worldview.php#part5

That's about all the proof I can really find for the Kili thing.

Bentley Seitei

Originally posted by NemeBro
Power levels were dropped in the manga for a reason.

I disagree with this, powerlevels were dropped randomly, reason had nothing to do with it 131

juggerman Senior Member

[QUOTE=14132059]Originally posted by Kento
[B]Which is weird that GohanxGoku would've been weaker than Vegetto was. 😆[QUOTE]

How would Goku fusing with a guy about a million times stronger that Vegeta produce a weaker fighter?

dadudemon Senior Member

I am quite certain that the scan that you posted, Galan, is not official/fake.

Kento The last Hokage

Originally posted by juggerman
How would Goku fusing with a guy about a million times stronger that Vegeta produce a weaker fighter? [/B]

The old Kaioshin stated that Vegetto being made up of rivals is what made the fusion so much more powerful. Gokou and Gohan wouldn't have became as powerful.

juggerman Senior Member

The Old Kaioshin was retarded.

Maybe the Fusion of rivals made them more powerful that what they should have been but there is no way Goku and Vegeta would have made a more powerful fighter than Goku and (No unfused being can ever surpass my ridiculous power) Gohan.

dadudemon Senior Member

Imagine...ChiChi and Bulma...

They'd have no choice but to just become polygamists.

Kento The last Hokage

Originally posted by dadudemon
Imagine...ChiChi and Bulma...
They'd have no choice but to just become polygamists.

what would Chichi have done if her son and husband had fused forever? 😆

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by dadudemon
I am quite certain that the scan that you posted, Galan, is not official/fake.

It's possible, but I've yet to find a source that discredits it with anything other than opinion(which isn't sufficient proof.)

Like I said, it appears to have been published in a book/manga of some sort... Just don't know what book/manga. I totally agree with all of the values listed, though. They're perfectly logical.

dadudemon Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
It's possible, but I've yet to find a source that discredits it with anything other than opinion(which isn't sufficient proof.)

The only source you need is me: I say it is fake. 😉

Originally posted by Galan007
Like I said, it appears to have been published in a book/manga of some sort... Just don't know what book/manga. I totally agree with all of the values listed, though. They're perfectly logical.

It is not logical: it is illogical. Kento found the fatal flaw: Goku did not improve his base-level at all over 7 years while in otherworld.

It is a pretty good fake...but they failed on their numbers towards the end. Matching it up with kili's is the second fatal flaw: that is not how "kilis" work as they are a different measuring system. Goku is supposedly at 3000 kilis yet 300 are required to blow up a planet: where does that power come from for Roshi and Vegeta who both could destroy planet sized stuff at power levels far less than 3,000,000,000?

Originally posted by Kento
what would Chichi have done if her son and husband had fused forever? 😆

Well...Gohan probably kept his mother "company" in some doujins, no doubt. Rule 34 says it exists.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by dadudemon
It is not logical: it is illogical. Kento found the fatal flaw: Goku did not improve his base-level at all over 7 years while in otherworld.

Only if you assume that was SSJ Goku's PL during the Cell saga. How do you know it wasn't meant to be his PL during the Buu saga? 😉

Originally posted by dadudemon
Goku is supposedly at 3000 kilis yet 300 are required to blow up a planet

True. The kili comparison I mentioned being incorrect doesn't disprove the PL's in that guide, though. Just saying.

Astner The Ghost Who Walks

Originally posted by dadudemon
Goku is supposedly at 3000 kilis yet 300 are required to blow up a planet

What part of it's not a linear measurement do you people not understand?

110 dB contains twice as much energy as 100 dB. Another non-linear relation is of the speed of an object and its kinetic energy. There aren't uncommon scales.

dadudemon Senior Member

Originally posted by Astner
What part of it's not a linear measurement do you people not understand?

False: Gohan in his out-of-shape SSJ2 state filled up the meter past half. Vegeta, in a SSJ2 state that was much stronger than Gohan's SSJ2 state, still stood no chance.

Frieza was 120m and Goku 150m: they were fairly evenly matched.

Cell could supposedly destroy the whole solar system with a full-powered Kamehameha. That's definitely way more than 300 kilis. \

The scale does not seem geometric.

To make it clearer, Vegeta seemed to be much closer to having as much power as Buu. And when the meter was filled, it was rather linear while being filled up...it wasn't geometric. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
Only if you assume that was SSJ Goku's PL during the Cell saga. How do you know it wasn't meant to be his PL during the Buu saga? 😉

And yet, there's no way that Goku could be evenly matched with Cell unless it was relatively close to Cells...that's how.

Originally posted by Galan007
True. The kili comparison I mentioned being incorrect doesn't disprove the PL's in that guide, though. Just saying.

Actually, I think it, by itself, proves it is just a fan made fake.

Also, it is not on the dragonball wiki...I mean, it could be, but that community also rules it as a fake.

But that is that takes a backseat to the obvious language issues that make it clearly a fake.