DBZ Power Scaling...

Originally posted by Galan007
Which is simply a red herring that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

SSJ2 Gohan>Cell>Goku. We already knew that stuff. Furthermore I've never said that the difference between Cell and Goku was the same difference that existed between SSJ2 Gohan and Cell. However, there was still a VAST difference between Goku and Cell--- at full power he [Cell] was more than just "slightly" above Goku, like you've stated.

Well, if you think that is a red herring and has nothing to do with the topic at hand, you have not been paying attention even a little because that has been my main point from the very beginning.

ASSJ Gohan was weaker than ASSJ Goku as seen by how much Cell was wiping the floor with Gohan...and that version of Cell was holding back.

Because you're obviously getting lost:

ASSJ Gohan < ASSJ Goku < Perfect Cell

SSJ2 is a x2 power increase.

SSJ2 Gohan was wiping the floor with Cell quite severely. Much more so than Cell was ASSJ Gohan.

Do you follow, so far?

So you must ask yourself, how close was Goku to a fully powered Perfect Cell?

Well, they were equal because Cell was holding back. It was stated that Cell was slightly stronger. So Cell was slightly stronger despite him making it look like they were equal. These are all facts: you cannot dispute them nor will entertain any disputations of those facts.

So how low can we go in power, in terms of percentages, before it no longer appears to be equal? 80% appears to be the case. Why? 100% Frieza was roughly equal with Goku getting the slight edge. A power level of 130 million versus 150 million nets us our 80% figure: 130/150=.8

So was Goku at least 80% of Perfect Cell? We don't know. Cell was holding back, slightly, against Goku. However, we know that Cell was not anywhere near Gohan when Gohan was at SSJ2 which is a x2.

So, Gohan, who was less than ASSJ Goku, got a x2 bump that made him significantly stronger than Perfect Cell, even at full power.

Goku did significantly better against the same version of Cell Gohan fought. Going by the Frieza fight, that means ASSJ Goku was at least 120% stronger than Gohan's ASSJ. Why? 80% is nearly even...not quite...but nearly. But let us pretend that ASSJ Gohan is 80% of ASSJ GOku, for just a moment (even though it is obvious that it is less than 80%).

Here is what Gohan would come out to be in his SSJ2 sate, in terms of Goku's power: 80%*2=160%. That means that SSJ2 Gohan was 160% of ASSJ Goku. Gohan is still wiping the floor with Cell, even with Perfect Cell at full power. This means that Cell is not even 80% of SSJ2 Gohan: else the match would have been closer like Frieza's and Goku's.

But let us pretend that a Full Powered Cell is 80% of SSJ2 Gohan.

160%*80%=128%

So using the most liberal numbers - in your favor not mine - Perfect Cell, at full power, is still only 128% of ASSJ Goku. Again, those are extremely liberal numbers I used. More reasonable numbers would net a much smaller difference because, clearly, a full powered Perfect Cell was nowhere near 80% of SSJ2 Gohan: they were not even near to be closely matched like Frieza and Goku were.

Being realistic, I'd say a full powered Perfect Cell was closer to 105-110% of a full powered ASSJ Goku. That's falling in line with a "slightly stronger than Goku" while still being weak enough to not be close to a SSJ2 Gohan.

Do not quote each section of that section of my post: it is all one point. Treat it as such. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
*insert facepalm gif here*

Unless you have proof(ie. scans) to back up your opinion that Goku was only "a bit" stronger than full power Cell, then I will simply write your statement off as more unsubstantiated conjecture.

"Unless you have proof(ie. scans) to back up your opinion that Goku was only "a bit" stronger than full power Cell, then I will simply write your statement off as more unsubstantiated conjecture."

Reposting is fun!

I think you meant that a full powered "Cell was a bit stronger than Goku".

But, no, the burden of proof is on you to prove that a full powered Cell was much stronger than a fully healthy ASSJ Goku. I can only prove that it was stated that Cell was slightly stronger than Goku. I cannot do anymore or any less than that.

Originally posted by Based
If Cell were only barely stronger than Goku why did he let Gohan do all the work? He gave up because he knew Cell was superior. The intent of Akira was for Gohan to surpass his father. Cell is not only barely stronger than Goku gtfo of here with that.

Barely stronger is not the words used. Slightly was.

The point was for Goku to get to fight because he wanted to fight. Goku knew Perfect Cell was stronger than himself the entire time but he still wanted to fight. He also wanted Cell to be embarrassed and humbled at how much stronger Gohan was than Cell.

Wasn't it stated that Gohan was more powerful than Goku before he went SSJ2?

Originally posted by dadudemon
It was stated that Cell was slightly stronger. So Cell was slightly stronger despite him making it look like they were equal. These are all facts: you cannot dispute them nor will entertain any disputations of those facts.

I just skimmed through their entire battle and I never once saw anyone state that a full power Cell was only "slightly" stronger than a healthy Goku. To the contrary, I saw several scans(posted earlier) which state and/or imply that Goku never had a chance in hell at beating Cell--- even when he [Cell] was holding back his full power. Heck, even if Goku were at full power and Cell were weakened, Goku would've only had a "slight" chance of winning(this was outright stated.) It really can't be spelled out any clearer to us. The difference between Cell and Goku, while not as significant as the difference between SSJ2 Gohan and Cell, was still quite vast--- certainly not "slight".

So again: either post evidence to support your opinion, or I will assume no such evidence exists and that your argument is based on false [mis]information.

Originally posted by juggerman
Wasn't it stated that Gohan was more powerful than Goku before he went SSJ2?

Yes Goku admits Gohan is stronger and Gohan after sensing his father's power is unimpressed.

Originally posted by Based
Yes Goku admits Gohan is stronger and Gohan after sensing his father's power is unimpressed.

I thought so. That would put Goku even farther behind Cell

Originally posted by Based
Yes Goku admits Gohan is stronger and Gohan after sensing his father's power is unimpressed.

When did Gohan sense Goku power and was unimpressed? He was shocked to feel his power all the way on the other side of the universe. He was more impressed than being unimpressed. Everyone there was amazed at feeling Goku power from so far away.

What are you talking about carv? Goku was right near them during the Cell Games. Me thinks you is confuzzled

Originally posted by carver9
When did Gohan sense Goku power and was unimpressed? He was shocked to feel his power all the way on the other side of the universe. He was more impressed than being unimpressed. Everyone there was amazed at feeling Goku power from so far away.

I think you're talking about Goku when he goes SSJ3 for the first time. Yes. Indeed Gohan was impressed that day. But in Cell Games, Gohan only think Goku is doing pretty good, and I don't think he was impressed that day.

During the Cell Games, Gohan compared the power/speed Goku displayed against Cell to his own. Gohan was so used to being weaker than Goku that even when he sensed he was more powerful, he still figured Goku must've been holding back--- which wasn't the case(as stated by Goku himself.)

During the Cell Games, Cell>>ASSJ Gohan>ASSJ Goku.

Do we know how far behind Cell Gohan was? They never actually fought until Gohan went SSJ2 iirc

They fought quite a bit. Cell toyed with him.

I only remember Gohan taking a beating and not fighting back. Maybe it was just the show but Gohan kept saying crap like "i don't wanna fight cuz i'll lose control" and other stupid similar crap.

This is how things went down in both the manga and anime...

Cell and Gohan fought for a while. Cell toyed with him.

Gohan commented on his inner power. Cell toyed with him a bit more, and tried pressing him to unleash said power.

Cell created the Cell Juniors and had them beat the shit out of the Z fighters

Android 16 was killed by Cell. Gohan transformed into a SSJ2.

Originally posted by Kirikaze Fuuma
I think you're talking about Goku when he goes SSJ3 for the first time. Yes. Indeed Gohan was impressed that day. But in Cell Games, Gohan only think Goku is doing pretty good, and I don't think he was impressed that day.

Yeah, that's what I am talking about.

Originally posted by carver9
Yeah, that's what I am talking about.

"Brb, imma go fap to that thought" - Carver9

dadudemon, remember when Vegeta lowered his fighting spirit so that Krillin could blow a hole in his chest? At which point Vegeta was just slightly below first form Frieza while Krillin was far beneath the level of Recoome.

Also, remember that Frieza at 100% of his final form was at 120,000,000 while holding back in his final form put him at 4,320,000.

Granted, we don't know how much Cell did hold back. But that only means that you can't use him as an example in your argument.

All this holding back crap is the reason DBZ pissed me off at times.

There are no official power levels after Trunks 5 power rating. Anyway Buu was no way 8 times more powerful than Cell.

Originally posted by Galan007
The funniest part about that scene was when Kibito freaked the phuck out that he/they could sense SSJ3 Goku's power all the way on the Kai World--- and then we later found out that Goku was holding back the bulk of his power against Fat Buu. Imagine Kibito's reaction if Goku would have fully powered up as a SSJ3. ElOhEl.

Then the world would have been destroyed or something. His power up caused the whole planet to experience a bad earthquake. Shit was falling over.

I wonder how many people Goku killed by powering up like that? 😐

That heartless bastard.