Who is the wisest ?

That was the idea put forward in FotR. And that would have been fine if not for:

Sauron putting his gaze directly on Frodo, who's weak and exhausted with the Ring around his neck and not batting a fiery eyelash, instead turning his gaze to the extremely suspicious small brigade of all his enemies in one place. That scene has always bothered me, kickass though it be.

Frankly, a convocation of giant killer eagles (who can fly easily out of arrow range--I don't why people think otherwise), and who have no problem taking on Nazgul and their Beasts, seems like a pretty straightforward and bulletproof approach. Hell, put Legolas on one of them, he could probably take out a few of the Beasts himself up there. Given that Sauron's only way of stopping a Hobbit at the mountain is to recall the Nazgul ASAP, there doesn't seem to be much he can do (or see, stupidly enough).

I just want to put it out there: every character present-- including Gandalf, but mainly Aragorn, (and excepting Gimli)-- dropped the ball by not hanging on to the unstoppable ghost army. One small exchange where the Dead King refuses to help Aragorn any further--after being asked to do so-- would have been fine, but why nobody except the Dwarf decided to pipe up and suggest that they be sent on one final mission to clear out Mordor is kinda odd. So... wisdom points for Gimli WTF?

What would stop Sauron putting his armies at the entrance to Mount Doom? I mean, didn't they have to go through that small opening to get inside so they could destroy the ring?

I honestly thought Aragorn had to release them, as he had given them his word, AND at that point, hadn't decided to attack Mordor yet.

It's an active volcano, it's has an opening up top. The entrance and footwalk were there for all the people who couldn't fly over it.

Aragorn did have to release them, but we're never told the specifications. Did he agree to release them after they "fight for (him)" once, twice, or whenever? They never told us. And regardless of whether you're going to attack Mordor, it should be obvious that emptying that land of every Orc and Troll would really, really help, one way or another.

The movie makes it obvious that if Aragorn didn't release the Army of the Dead, he would be breaking his own word as a King to hold their oaths fulfilled. The Dead agreed to fight for him - they fought for him, and reclaimed their honor by saving Minas Tirith. As -Pr- mentioned, Aragorn also hadn't planned on marching to the Black Gates at that moment, so he couldn't just tell the Dead, "Wait a minute, before we're done, we gotta march on Mordor."

Yeah.

But the movie forgot to include an explanation as to why he couldn't have them sweep through Mordor. They took the time to board the ships, sail up the river, and then swept through Minas Tirith in minutes. Why couldn't they go through Mordor? What rush were they in? Why didn't Aragorn try to tell them to do that?

Keep in mind I don't want you to answer these questions, I want the movie to. The movie doesn't explain something that's going on, and leaves us to justify it for instead. Thus the movie has a plot hole. Plain and simple.

Originally posted by Kazenji
Thought it was going to be the Wreaking Crew unless that has been squashed.

Gandalf wins this easily. He evolved into a higher state after hundreds if not a few thousand years of existence of perceiving the the world around him as threatened. He became Gandalf the White.

Yoda saw such a dark force and challenged the source straight on....just like Gandalf and also failed. Though he retreated and retired to a reclusive planet awaiting a champion. Gandalf fought back.

Gandalf evolved and kept fighting. He wins.

Dumbledore with all his spells and possessions still got killed by the enemy upon their first assault on his base. He was an extreme pacifist. And relied on the children to avenge his vision.

1. Gandalf.
2. Yoda.
3. Dumbledore.

Originally posted by the ninjak
Gandalf wins this easily. He evolved into a higher state after hundreds if not a few thousand years of existence of perceiving the the world around him as threatened. He became Gandalf the White.

Yoda saw such a dark force and challenged the source straight on....just like Gandalf and also failed. Though he retreated and retired to a reclusive planet awaiting a champion. Gandalf fought back.

Gandalf evolved and kept fighting. He wins.

Dumbledore with all his spells and possessions still got killed by the enemy upon their first assault on his base. He was an extreme pacifist. And relied on the children to avenge his vision.

1. Gandalf.
2. Yoda.
3. Dumbledore.

Dumbledore chose his death and it worked to his side's benefit. Dumbledore knew Voldemort had to destroy his own Horcrux in Harry. Something even Voldemort himself was unaware of. Dumbledore also challenged Lord Voldemort so I wouldn't say he was an extreme pacifist. He wasn't just knuckling for a brawl but wouldn't back down from a fight against the darkest wizard ever in existence either.

Seriously, why are people even considering Yoda to be smart, let alone wise? He's one of the dumbest characters in the prequels, and even in the OT he's nothing special.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Seriously, why are people even considering Yoda to be smart, let alone wise? He's one of the dumbest characters in the prequels, and even in the OT he's nothing special.

I don't know if you've seen the prequels, but Yoda was pretty effing retarded.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I don't know if you've seen the prequels, but Yoda was pretty effing retarded.

Lmao yea.

Premonitions?....premonitions you say🙂

Grave danger I fear in his training... go ahead and train him them.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Grave danger I fear in his training... go ahead and train him them.

I know right.

Obiwan and yoda fail! Fck its you guys fault he lost his arm! Empire ends on such a downer, Luke gets his hand cut off, Han Solo gets frozen and taken away by boba fet..thats life a series of downers..

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Grave danger I fear in his training... go ahead and train him them.

"Always in motion is the future."

Originally posted by dadudemon
"Always in motion is the future."

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
So let's risk it for absolutely no reason.

Well, except that it was the dying wish of probably the wisest Jedi of them all: Qui Gon. And Anakin was the Chosen One. Oh, and the fact that Kenobi promised his master his last dying wish. So, yeah, those are pretty much 3 good reasons.

And Yoda was right: tons and tons of bad things happened because of "Vader's" training. It just happened to work out, in the end.

Qui-Gon was a terrible Jedi. Stupid too. Who cares if he's "the Chosen One" when the leader of the Jedi himself predicts grave danger. There's taking a chance and then there's being convenient to the plot. And who cares what Kenobi promised his dumbass of a master. He never liked Anakin to begin with. Not to mention that the leader of the Jedi himself predicted grave danger in his training. That the audience knows it "worked out in the end" is pointless--Yoda didn't. But he still went forward for absolutely no good reason, other than the plot needed him to.

Plus I wouldn't call the rise of the Empire, the death of the Republic and Jedi, the destruction of Alderaan, and a galactic civil war to be "working out in the end." It's a self fulfilling prophecy that says the chosen one will correct all the mistakes that he himself was the cause of.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Qui-Gon was a terrible Jedi.

Excellent Jedi, actually.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Stupid too.

More intelligent than any on the council, actually. I'd say that if Qui Gon had lived, Anakin would not have fallen to the dark side.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Who cares if he's "the Chosen One" when the leader of the Jedi himself predicts grave danger.

A leader who was wrong about...pretty much everything in the end. 🙂 Oh, and Qui Gon ended up being right, in the end. 🙂

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
There's taking a chance and then there's being convenient to the plot.

Well, since the story was already written in the precious OT, Lucas did not have much choice but to show Anakin fall to the darkside, now did he? 🙂

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
And who cares what Kenobi promised his dumbass of a master.

Obviously, both Anakin and Kenobi care...as did the Jedi Council as well as the Grandmaster.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He never liked Anakin to begin with.

"I will train him." in TPM and "I loved you like the a brother..." in RotS...yeah, he never liked him.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Not to mention that the leader of the Jedi himself predicted grave danger in his training.

Ohhhh...mysterious! We didn't even know that that would happen when we saw it! Oh, wait...we did. We know he falls to the dark side.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
That the audience knows it "worked out in the end" is pointless--Yoda didn't.

Except that it is not pointless, even slightly. The entire story is a story to which we already knew the result. Anyone who knew anything about Star Wars before the work on the PT even started knew several things, including the ending:

1. Anakin was trained by Kenobi against Kenobi's better judgement.

2. Anakin fell to the dark side and become Vader.

3. Vader became the slave of the Emperor and did all sorts of bad things.

Why are you devastated that the PT covered those obvious facts? It is like...you're furious because someone said to go look at an orange picture and you're like, "WTF is this shit? This picture is orange! FFS! ORANGE! Well I never!"

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
But he still went forward for absolutely no good reason, other than the plot needed him to.

Except for the following reasons which you obviously forgot about:

1. Qui Gon made Obi Wan promise, in his last dying breath, to train Anakin.

2. Obi Wan agreed to to do #1 in addition to believing Anakin really was the Chosen One.

3. The Council agreed to allow Kenobi train Anakin. Or did you forget about this part? "Agree with you, the Council does. Your apprentice, Skywalker will be."

You can't just hand wave extremely strong character motivations from Kenobi to train Anakin. You can pretend there was no plot reasons but fulfilling the dying wishes of a man you loved and admired is hardly "no reason." You PT hater, you. 😆

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Plus I wouldn't call the rise of the Empire, the death of the Republic and Jedi, the destruction of Alderaan, and a galactic civil war to be "working out in the end."

Yeah, cause a Clone Wars that lasted years were hardly any less destructive. Amirite? awesome

So let us destroy your points:

1. Death of the Republic: Jedi Council's fault, the Emperor's Fault, and the Senate's fault. Not Anakin's.

2. Destruction of Alderaan: Grand Moff Tarkin's fault. In fact, Vader urged Leia to kind of...you know...cooperate.

3. Both Galactic Civil Wars (Clone Wars and the Rebellion) were the fault of the Emperor, not Vader. Oh, guess what? The person that perpetuated the Clone Wars and the destruction you talk of in the OT? Yeah...the Emperor...the man Vader eventually overthrew? Guess you forgot about one of the very best moments in the OT, didn't you? 🙂

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It's a self fulfilling prophecy that says the chosen one will correct all the mistakes that he himself was the cause of.

Correction: "that the Emperor was the cause of." 🙂

Kinda confused here Donut Man. It seems like you are defending the idea that Yoda was "wise" but then you say:

Originally posted by dadudemon
A leader who was wrong about...pretty much everything in the end.

Seems to me like if someone was wrong about "pretty much everything" they don't belong in the "wise" bracket.....