Originally posted by NewGuy01
While I believe that Vitiate is stronger than ROTS Sidious, and may even be superior to ROTJ Sidious, DE Sidious takes the lead.He'd summon a Force Storm that would undoubtedly vacuum Vitiate right up like dirt on a rug.
Force Storm would reduce Vitiate to his essence state. Interestingly, Vitiate can fight even in this state.
Their are some additional issues;
1. How Sidious can defend himself from FLS of Vitiate?
Evidence suggests that a lightsaber will not be an adequate defensive weapon against an attack of this intensity. In addition, Sidious have never demonstrated the ability to use his raw power to successfully absorb and deflect deadly Force powers comprised of pure dark side energies; Sidious would be (logically) familiar with Tutaminis but Vitiate's FLS really upped the game.
2. How Sidious can cope with telepathic abilities of Vitiate?
Sidious have never met a foe in person who was extraordinarily proficient in this aspect of the Force.
Therefore, this contest is not one-sided.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He'd summon a Force Storm in a close range combat? Would he be safe from it in this scenario?
This I agree with. Nothing ever suggested DE Sidious could just whip up a force storm in close range combat and utilize it so precisely that it will just wipe out the guy holding a lightsaber 3 feet away from him, but leave Sidious himself completely untouched.
Good to see your still around SWL.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66"Obi Wan and Vader duel on Mustafar while Yoda and Palpatine duel on Coruscant. Palpatine is too strong for the aging Yoda, who escapes with Bail Organa." (SW Comics Companion)
^It seems to me that Yoda not being able to defeat Sidious had something to do with, ya know, not being powerful enough to do so. Not because Sidious had an empire.
Nai, if you see this, and if you have a counter-argument for it, please give DARTH POWER a chance first. I'm wondering what illogical argument he comes up with this time.
Urm.. Did you actually read what I said before posting this.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You were the one making an argument that he fled because the Emperor was so powerful (in combat) when you know very well the Emperor never overpowered Yoda in combat.You even know the script and the movie together show that if anyone was doing the overpowering in combat it was Yoda.
Yes I "claimed" he fled due to Sidious having an Empire. Could also be that he took the harder fall after a force contest which Yoda seemed to be winning. Could have been a combination of both especially after his "realization."
Point was it was made perfectly clear that Yoda could overpower Sidious in direct combat. So any references to him not being strong/powerful to do so are either referring to Sidious being too powerful in an overall sense: In terms of combat AND his military/political position and power. Or they're just not reliable quotes. Lucas's script takes priority over any of those statements in terms of canon.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
😆Too true.
Sad.
I say this without having read through all of the previous pages, but my honest impression is that if one is able to resist Vitiate's uber mind powers, he's not that unbeatable, reasonably strong but not top-tier with a saber, hence the Hero of Tython beating him.
With his mind powers, how often would he have a chance to fight directly? He'd almost never have a challenge, nor due to his obsession with immortality would he take the risk of a challenge if he could help it (unlike Sids, who'll taunt apprentices to get them to attack in a rage).
If Revan had been more prepared for said powers, I think he might've won. And Sidious... well, like Revan, he's probably not going to go in expecting it, so it could win the day for him, but then again it might not.
Just my impression.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
This I agree with. Nothing ever suggested DE Sidious could just whip up a force storm in close range combat and utilize it so precisely that it will just wipe out the guy holding a lightsaber 3 feet away from him, but leave Sidious himself completely untouched.Good to see your still around SWL.
And nicely put.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Revan was very prepared for Vitiates telepathy and successfully neutralised it. It was the Emperor's lightning that took him down.
Originally posted by Ascendancy
Doesn't Sidious going Dr. Mindbender on the entire galaxy, including all of the Jedi, speak to him having sufficient mental Force prowess to survive Vitiate and the separate him from his head?
Originally posted by DARTH POWERDE audio book DID suggest that he CAN and he WAS about the summon a smaller force storm in the tiny area he was dueling luke with.
This I agree with. Nothing ever suggested DE Sidious could just whip up a force storm in close range combat and utilize it so precisely that it will just wipe out the guy holding a lightsaber 3 feet away from him, but leave Sidious himself completely untouched.Good to see your still around SWL.
Why wouldn't it be safe for him hmm? Considering that the smaller the storm, the much easier control he has over it. What? You think he'd summon a force storm 1km in diameter in a tiny battlefield and get himself sucked into it? Use what ever little common sense you have.
Originally posted by ares834
Where is this made "perfectly clear"?From what I saw it seemed pretty evenly matched.
The key word was could.
The script makes it clear Yoda overpowered him in the sword fight and the movie shows Yoda just barely overpowering Sidious in the end force fight.
He didn't run because Sidious was just too powerful for him in direct combat.
He might have run because he was exhausted after a long fight which wasn't going his way towards the end- lightsaber got knocked out of his hand by a FL shot which took him by surprise(presumably) and taking the longer, harder fall after the Force Blast.
He also might have fled because by the time he got back up to confront Sidious again, and/or found his Saber, there likely would have been troops there. Again coming back to the point that Sidious had an Empire in his palm.
But the reason he fled Was Not because Yoda was just plain out incapable of defeating Sidious in direct combat. Mace Windu wasn't the only one capable of doing that as confirmed by Lucas.
How is this even a topic? Sidious is the strongest Sith ever (Canon) in ROTS and he is even stronger in DE. People who argue against that are quiet frankly idiots and are not reading the same stuff as me. Vitiate is an over amped piece of rubbish and the only shred of a source people use in his defence is not even Canon.
Come to http://starwarsforums.forumotion.com/portal if you want to talk to people who know what they are talking about.
Originally posted by NethanM
How is this even a topic? Sidious is the strongest Sith ever (Canon) in ROTS and he is even stronger in DE. People who argue against that are quiet frankly idiots and are not reading the same stuff as me. Vitiate is an over amped piece of rubbish and the only shred of a source people use in his defence is not even Canon.Come to http://starwarsforums.forumotion.com/portal if you want to talk to people who know what they are talking about.
You better read this thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=651536
Originally posted by ares834
Without prep I can't see Vitate taking Yoda TBH. Although, saying he can't defeat Plo Koon is a ridiculous.
With prep, he reaches "unstoppable" position; he prepares himself for threats of tremendous scale only. Without prep, he is still among the most dangerous combatants in the mythos.
Vitiate doesn't needs prep to take on a single individual or even a Strike Team. He would have utterly destroyed Revan if T3-M4 had not stepped in; he changed his mind afterwards. Also, he could take on trio of Revan. Meetra and Scourge simultaneously and still win. With prep, he would have annihilated them in single blow. Not to forget that he comfortably broke a Jedi Strike Team (of one of the strongest Jedi of the mythos).
So yes, he can handle Yoda without prep.