Emperor Palpatine -vs- Emperor Vitiate

Originally posted by jadams3928
That's not the only difference. Apparently, DE Sidious came up with some brand new, nifty techniques.

If you're referring to the remark that he can invent new techniques at his leisure, it's an in-universe claim from The Dark Empire Sourcebook.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Also, in a young body, he was a potent saber combatant, whereas ROTJ Sidious was not.

There is no evidence for this. Dooku was eighty-years-old and still one of the finest duelists in galactic history, as was Yoda at eight-hundred and change.

The Emperor may very well not have honed his skills in the two decades he reigned, but that doesn't mean between his extraordinary reflexes and speed that he would not be a formidable duelist. We see in TFU that he still carries his lightsaber with him.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
If you're referring to the remark that he can invent new techniques at his leisure, it's an in-universe claim from The Dark Empire Sourcebook.

I can only imagine how much more superior Palpatine would be to Vitiate if we took that quote as fact, considering that the only difference between ROTJ Palpatine and DE Palpatine that has been shown, was his ability to destroy entire starfleets.

Seriously, Palpatine stomps Vitiate through sheer speed. He can easily evade most of Vitiate's force attacks while doing circles around him, dishing out his own force attacks. Vitiate would be so hardpressed trying to defend himself against Sidious' attacks that he wouldn't have time to dish out any attacks of his own. (If someone wants to convince me otherwise, I'd be happy to hear them out. An argument other than: "nuh uh, Palpatine can't outspeed Vitiate because Vitiate is powerful and he has powerful mind powers!" or something equally stupid)

He can easily evade most of Vitiate's force attacks while doing circles around him

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Seriously, Palpatine stomps Vitiate through sheer speed. He can easily evade most of Vitiate's force attacks while doing circles around him, dishing out his own force attacks. Vitiate would be so hardpressed trying to defend himself against Sidious' attacks that he wouldn't have time to dish out any attacks of his own. (If someone wants to convince me otherwise, I'd be happy to hear them out. An argument other than: "nuh uh, Palpatine can't outspeed Vitiate because Vitiate is powerful and he has powerful mind powers!" or something equally stupid)

It took a lumbering injured-cyborg with low-testosterone to trudge up to Palpatine and toss him aside like useless trash.

I don't think RotJ Palpatine has any plausible speed advantage over Vitiate, here. 😄

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You mean a battle without lightsaber's, or are you saying Palpatine doesn't get his speed at all here? Because speed is not limited to lightsaber combat.

See my quote about Palpatine and the injured Tin-man, disposing of him, like so much useless compost. 😛

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66

How is that exactly? TP? TK? FL?

Possibly any of the above.

Vitiate seemed to have Broly-esque developmental capacities as a Sith.

He was already rape-stomping people once he hit puberty, and then went on to rule an Empire of Force users, virtually unopposed.

At the point of his Peak in power, he's possibly more than a match for this somewhat physically-dilapidated Sidious.

I agree that a younger RotS Sidious could likely speed-blitz him - and DE Sidious would rape Vitiate like a cheap Vietnamese hooker.

But this particular Palpatine seems to be as lacking in the reactionary-capability department as much as Vitiate is.

This is a contest of power and knowledge - and it would seem Vitiate might be able to edge it out, here.

SIDIOUS_66
I can only imagine how much more superior Palpatine would be to Vitiate if we took that quote as fact, considering that the only difference between ROTJ Palpatine and DE Palpatine that has been shown, was his ability to destroy entire starfleets.

It is fact that precludes us from accepting the quote at face value. Not only is it entirely in-universe, but the implied ease with which the Emperor is alleged to create Force techniques is inconsistent with even his arguably unparalleled mastery. There's an implicit no-limits fallacy to it: if he could create new techniques at leisure, why couldn't he stop the decay of his sabotaged clone bodies? Why couldn't he invent a technique to overwhelm Empatajayos Brand's attempts to contain his essence? Or displace Luke's personality and inhabit his fully mature body as opposed to settling for the newborn Anakin Solo.

Regardless, feat-to-feat, the Emperor still enjoys an advantage over Vitiate.

SIDIOUS_66
Seriously, Palpatine stomps Vitiate through sheer speed. He can easily evade most of Vitiate's force attacks while doing circles around him, dishing out his own force attacks. Vitiate would be so hardpressed trying to defend himself against Sidious' attacks that he wouldn't have time to dish out any attacks of his own. (If someone wants to convince me otherwise, I'd be happy to hear them out. An argument other than: "nuh uh, Palpatine can't outspeed Vitiate because Vitiate is powerful and he has powerful mind powers!" or something equally stupid)

Honestly, I doubt that this would really be the case, but yes, in terms of sheer evidence and excluding deduction and inference, you're right.

jadams3928
Glad there's proof of this other than rampant fanboyism and stupidity. Here, let me try it. Vitiate mind rapes Sidous, destroys him with force lightning, a flash of light, or any other technique in his arsenal. See how stupid that sounded? Of course you don't 🙂

As I recall, a lot of that has been seriously contended by you quite recently.

Rookwood
It took a lumbering injured-cyborg with low-testosterone to trudge up to Palpatine and toss him aside like useless trash.

Rookwood
See my quote about Palpatine and the injured Tin-man, disposing of him, like so much useless compost.

Definitely a damning moment on ol' Palpatine's part, but it was hardly a duel or even an actual contest. The Emperor's utter focus was on Luke and Vader's betrayal was unexpected. It was clearly circumstantial. Embarrassing, yes, but all evidence indicates Vader would be unable to reproduce that outcome in a general match, with the Emperor's attention fixated on him.

Rookwood
I don't think RotJ Palpatine has any plausible speed advantage over Vitiate, here.

Feat-to-feat, yes he does, unless we have reason to believe the Emperor's speed reduced dramatically in 20 years.

Rookwood
Possibly any of the above.

Vitiate seemed to have Broly-esque developmental capacities as a Sith.

He was already rape-stomping people once he hit puberty,

According to an unverified legend.

Rookwood
and then went on to rule an Empire of Force users, virtually unopposed.

Impressive, certainly, but he suffered betrayals and attempts on his life.

Rookwood
At the point of his Peak in power, he's possibly more than a match for this somewhat physically-dilapidated Sidious.

I agree that a younger RotS Sidious could likely speed-blitz him - and DE Sidious would rape Vitiate like a cheap Vietnamese hooker.

But this particular Palpatine seems to be as lacking in the reactionary-capability department as much as Vitiate is.

This is a contest of power and knowledge - and it would seem Vitiate might be able to edge it out, here.

All possible.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Glad there's proof of this other than rampant fanboyism and stupidity.

LMAO. Proof of what, retard? The burden of proof would be on you to prove that Vitiate can react to Palpatine's speed. Palpatine speed is far superior, as is his reaction speed considering he was reacting to opponents who stalemated him in sheer speed. You haven't given one speed feat from Vitiate that suggests he can compete with Sidious in sheer speed. The only thing you've argued is, "nuh uh Vitiate is more powerful than B-team therefore he's faster." Well sorry, idiot, that's not proof that he can react to Palpatine's speed.

Originally posted by jadams3928
Vitiate mind rapes

Not if Sidious mind rapes him first. Speed is the issue here lol.

You also ignore the fact that Palpatine himself is also an extremely potent telepath, with one of the strongest wills in the mythos, being able to will the force out of balance (along with Plagueis). Not only that, Palpatine has shown telepathic resistance even at a young age, before he recieved any force training at all. It would be a waste of time for Vitiate to try to mind dominate in the middle of battle

Originally posted by jadams3928
destroys him with force lightning

Not if Sidious can attack him with his lightning first, dumbass.

Originally posted by jadams3928
a flash of light

Quote with context of this ability?

I can just as easily say Palpatine can open a wormhole on Vitiate, seeing how he was already a practictioner of this ability as of ROTJ, and even used it to transfer his own essence accross space.

Originally posted by jadams3928
or any other technique in his arsenal

Palpatine has shrugged off an explosion that destroyed his tower on the Death Star. What can Vitiate dish out that would be able to take Palpatine down? Assuming Vitiate is fast enough.

Originally posted by jadams3928
See how stupid that sounded?

Yeah, but I'm not surprised since it's coming from a sad fanboy like you.

I think Tempest was being nice when he said your grasp of logic is far beyond idiocy. But he knows you better than I do, so IDK. But either you're an idiot, or just a huge fanboy. It's one or the other. Which one is it?

Errbody needs to let the fanboy thing go.

Some people have one character's name in their user title, others create their accounts specifically to exclusively support one character and his faction, and so on. It manifests in many forms.

Don't know why people are being caustic and hostile unprovoked, either. Take a good long look in the mirror and let it go, my sons.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
It is fact that precludes us from accepting the quote at face value. Not only is it entirely in-universe, but the implied ease with which the Emperor is alleged to create Force techniques is inconsistent with even his arguably unparalleled mastery. There's an implicit no-limits fallacy to it: if he could create new techniques at leisure, why couldn't he stop the decay of his sabotaged clone bodies? Why couldn't he invent a technique to overwhelm Empatajayos Brand's attempts to contain his essence? Or displace Luke's personality and inhabit his fully mature body as opposed to settling for the newborn Anakin Solo.

That's why I said if we took it as fact.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Honestly, I doubt that this would really be the case, but yes, in terms of sheer evidence and excluding deduction and inference, you're right.

Probably not, but the Vitiate fanboys are being unreasonable. And my claims have more to go by, so I'm sticking to it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Errbody needs to let the fanboy thing go.

Some people have one character's name in their user title, others create their accounts specifically to exclusively support one character and his faction, and so on. It manifests in many forms.

Don't know why people are being caustic and hostile unprovoked, either. Take a good long look in the mirror and let it go, my sons.

Actually, you're right but they're not being civil so why should I?

Am I sounding immature? lol

In my eyes, no. But in the eyes of mature folk, yes. lol

I wouldn't back down either until the other side did, hence why I'm ordering an immediate ceasefire by all parties.

lol

What's your opinion on the thread?

I'm not sure.

Yeah, but I'm not surprised since it's coming from a sad fanboy like you.

I think Tempest was being nice when he said your grasp of logic is far beyond idiocy. But he knows you better than I do, so IDK. But either you're an idiot, or just a huge fanboy. It's one or the other. Which one is it? [/B]

I've yet to see anyone take you seriously on here so please, continue amusing us with your hilariously retarded posts 😂

@Tempest and Rookwood

What feats can Emperor Vitiate conclusively claim
(1) bereft the aid of ritual, meditation, or other preparatory measures
(2) clear of a world or structure inferred or explicitly stated to be strong in the dark side
(3) without the tenuity of hearsay, legend, or ambiguous circumstance

that
(a) warrant his repute as a formidable top-tier combatant?
(b) Emperor Palpatine hasn't done first or better?

Originally posted by Eminence
@Tempest and Rookwood

What feats can Emperor Vitiate conclusively claim
(1) bereft the aid of ritual, meditation, or other preparatory measures
(2) clear of a world or structure inferred or explicitly stated to be strong in the dark side
(3) without the tenuity of hearsay, legend, or ambiguous circumstance

that
(a) warrant his repute as a formidable top-tier combatant?
(b) Emperor Palpatine hasn't done first or better?

To my knowledge, none.

Damn, cocaine makes my hands tingle..

Originally posted by jadams3928
I've already called you a pathetic fanboy. I appreciate you repeating the insult back to me. That's what morons do when they have nothing else.

All that matters is: you fit the term far more than I do. But if calling me it first makes you feel like you have one-up on me, then give yourself a big pat on the back.

Vitiate seems to fit into a niche as a potent Force-user who is nonetheless a fairly inept combatant. I don't think he's undeserving of most of the accolades heaped upon him by the narration and character testimony in Revan and The Old Republic, the various sourcebooks you've all consulted, and whatever he is accorded in the Timeline entries, but with deference to context they seem to speak to scholarship and prowess ill-suited for confrontation. Like Old Daka's necromancy, Joruus C'baoth or Andeddu's telepathy, and the mastery of any number of practiced alchemists or users of dark side arcana, some esoteric pursuits do not necessarily pay dividends against a sufficiently capable foe, and perhaps like Abeloth not all Force-sensitives have the knack for combat you would expect given their potential. Vitiate has a general efficacy enabled by his talents; that he overpowered Revan when the efforts of Lady Nyriss were so contemptuously rebuked is a noteworthy testament to that. Yet what facilitated that favorable exchange was arrogance on Revan's part following a contest that was not one sided despite the advantages Vitiate enjoyed. I think it's reasonable to conclude that when the deck isn't favorably stacked, he's simply not as dangerous as Palpatine, Luke, and others.

Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
All that matters is: you fit the term far more than I do. But if calling me it first makes you feel like you have one-up on me, then give yourself a big pat on the back.

Except the opposite is true. Good show