Abraxas vs Chaos King

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

I will focus on this one point specifically first
so as to not have it overlooked by a spam attack of scans
if i respond to every point at once.

Lets begin

The scan clearly states that our universe itself is a multiverse.

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14753292_Makers0.jpg]

Do not twist unambiguous statements to coincide with your interpretation.

He states the thing he has noticed about our universe is that IT
IS MANY LAYERED AND ITSELF A MULTIVERSE

That statement is not open to interpretation.

It does not give room for an alternative interpretation.

He clearly states that hes noticed the universe itself is made up of many layers
and states that it itself is a type of multiverse.

Nowhere in his statements does he say the universe is one of many in a multiverse.
He clearly marks out the subject of his observations as the universe, then he talks
about what hes observed about the universes nature, that it is many layered, he
states that the universe IS a multiverse. NOT that it is a part of one. That
was not the point he was trying to make.

... Yet, unbelievably. you're actually doing exactly that. You thought I'd miss it?

Bill Mantlo NEVER said: "Our Universe is many layered {AND ITSELF} a Multiverse"

Mantlo also NEVER said: "it is {itself a type of} multiverse"

** Not that I would really expect any more from you,
always less in fact and less lately than ever,
but I'm gonna call ya on the lie for trying to insult me with your pompous comedy.

Mantlo only said: "Our Universe ... it is many layered,
composed of a seemingly endless number of Dimensions.
Indeed, IT IS a Multiverse."

-----------------------------

Nice try on separating the actual context of the dialogue by adding 'AND ITSELF'
or the other nonsense ... 'is itself a type of multiverse.'

Bill Mantlo was direct and plain and never suggested that the Singular Universe which is 616,
or any other for that matter,
is another "multiverse" aside from the Multiverse of alternate/parallel realities.

There is only ONE basic kind of Pocket universe ... or Universe ... or Multiverse in Marvel comics.

Asgard or Mephisto's realm are "Pocket" universes. (which are limited in size)

Reality 616 is one whole universe. (all whole universes are infinite)

The prime (mainstream) Multiverse (contains an infinite number of Divergent/Parallel/Alternate whole UniverseS)

There are several realms outside Space-Time & 616
that are associated with 616, like Atleza's domain,
or the Masters of the Matrix, even your WHR and other Nexuses like Manthing's.

****************

This is from the Marvel official Handbook 2006:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12362745_MU_bio.jpg]

"A Universe is a SINGLE-Dimension Reality, such as Earth 616,
the Mainstream Marvel Universe.

The Multiverse ...
is the collection of Alternate Dimensions with a similar nature and Universal hierarchy.

Earth 616 and Alternates seen in the Marvel Universe
(which include being like the Watcher, Eternity etc) are withIN the SAME Multiverse.

Realms LACKING this hierarchy of Power are OUTSIDE of the Multiverse.

The Realms with a Multiverse are divided into Divergent Earths,
who share a common history and Diverge at a specific point,

and Alternate Earths,
who are similar, but posses many inherent differences"

=======================================

That says it all, but the 2008 GLossary of definitions is more precise:

=======================================

Earth 616: (616 Universe)

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12362746_MU_bio15.jpg]

"Core Continuum designation given to the Prime Earth of the Marvel Universe,
Reality from which most Alternate Earths derive"

......................................................................................................

Multiverse: (group of alternate/divergent/parallel UniverseS)

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12362747_MU_bio3.jpg]

"Group of Alternate UniverseS containing the same Hierarchy,
including Eternity, Infinity and the Watchers"

......................................................................................................

Alternate Earth: (Alternate Universe)

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12362748_MU_bio2.jpg]

"A World resembling Earth which coexist with Earth-616 in another Dimensional Space"

......................................................................................................

Divergent Earth: (Divergent Universe)

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12362749_MU_bio14.jpg]

"Alternate Earth which was once parallel to Earth-616,
until a change altered how it's history unfolded."

......................................................................................................

Parallel World: (Parallel Universe)

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/12362750_MU_bio7.jpg]

"A World that exists in another Dimension
whose Reality never diverged from but is parallel to Reality Earth-616"

=======================================

2008 Glossary of Definitions also tells us:

Dimension stands for "Universe/Realm containing Space, Time, Matter and Energy"

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12362797_MU_bio13.jpg]

On Panel just as well:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12362799_DImensions_are_Universes.jpg]

"Universes are referred to as Dimensions"

......................................................................................................

Now a "Pocket Dimension" is different than an actual "Dimension" ...

... it is NOT an entire Universe!

Pocket Dimension: (pocket universe)

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/12362800_MU_bio8.jpg]

"Universe whose Spatial size is limited."

Of course ... this add on ("Pocket"😉 isn't always included when referencing one in certain stories.
e.g. Many times you'll read in stories 'defend the realm of Asgard' ... if one didn't know better,
they'd probably think this means Asgard is an infinite universe since the character didn't say:
'defend the pocket-realm of Asgard' ... but then other stories would enlighten you with what it really is.
Heck, I have a story where Thor states Asgard (including the space around the land)
is akin to the milky way in size. Doesn't matter though,
because it occupies its own Space-Time its a Universe.
Grant it limited in size but the definition of a Pocket Universe non-theless.

Pocket Universes and regular Universes (divergent/parallel/alternate) are the same shit,
only difference is size. Pockets come in many sizes but Never infinite or near it,
the others are all infinite.
Nevertheless, together they comprise the majority of the Multiversal UniverseS.

=======================================

^ I disagree.

=======================================

So as you can see,
Earth-616 (or the 616 Universe/Eternity) is a SINGLE Reality, nothing more.

The Multiverse is made up of Alternate/Divergent/Parallel entire standalone UniverseS.

Pocket universes are also located outside 616, but withIN the Multiverse.
In fact, according to On Panel truth,
the Pocket realms surround the infinity of alternate/paralell Universes
which are located in a grouping at the center of the Multiverse.

I'll prove/post the facts down below in a masterfully explained segment by Dr Strange
simplifying the complex structure of the one and only Multiverse
which contains the 616 Reality & the infinite number of variations of said reality
including Pocket dimensions and standalone realities like Otherworld amongst a few others.

-----------------------------

What you obviously don't know
is why Beyonder was traveling the one and only infinite Mavrel Multiverse of the time.

I'm betting you've centered your argument around those cropped scans for years
without actually ever reading the freakin story. Funny.

Beyonder was exploring - but his main objective was to find Bruce Banner.
Beyonder, while sitting in 616, with his cosmic awareness noticed Bruce in despair,
who was in the "CrossRoads of Infinity"

The "CrossRoads" is a (Multiversal Nexus to the pocket & infinite Parallel/Alternate UniverseS)

The "CrossRoads of Infinity" is also located OUTSIDE 616!

Like all Nexuses!

This is why Beyonder had to step out of 616 to reach the Nexus,
and as he did, he explored UniverseS (pockets & also dimensions which are infinite like the Microverse)
then finally arriving at his destination WAY outside 616 ... the "CrossRaods."

Anyway ... Mantlo clearly states:

[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14753389_B_explores_Multiverse1.jpg]

[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14753390_B_explores_Multiverse2.jpg]

"Traversing the Myriad Planes" (realities)

[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14753391_B_explores_Multiverse3.jpg]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I could just stomp your illusions by systematically proving
every where Beyonder went on that page is OUTSIDE 616, including the Pockets like Asgard.

But I don't need to do that, I just need to prove that ONE of those "Planes" (realities)
is OUTSIDE 616, and then ... you better ask for forgiveness.

Oh, and I will prove that.

Since you concentrated on the Microverse so much,
even posting scans and presenting them fallaciously with confidence,
I think it's only right I pick you apart with this one alone.

I think I speak for everyone when I say pee pee vagina.

That is all is

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

That is the reason he then goes on to demonstrate his point by visiting on panel the many realms/pocket dimensions connected to our universe which make it a multiverse of sorts in his eyes:

To each universe in the Marvel multiverse there are versions of Asgard, Mephistos realm and a
Dark Dimension. Therefore he was making the point that the universe wasnt "uni" as in singular, it
was "many layered" composed of more than one dimension (multi) which is why he called it a multiverse.

Not a multiverse in terms of the Multiverse proper with divergent realities, but simply because it
consisted of multiple dimensions in and of itself.
How would Beyonder be making a point that the universe is one of many universes in a multiverse
- by not actually stating a sentence that meant that?
How would Beyonder be making a point that the universe is one of many universes in a multiverse
- by visiting pocket realms connected to the universe instead of doing the obvious thing and
travelling alternate realities like Days Of Future Past?

As for your "point" about the Microverse, in its original conception, the Microverse or Microverses
were subatomic pocket dimensions that existed within the atoms of the universe which is what
Beyonder is visualizing for us:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14765826_OUTSIDE_616.jpg]

Here you can see in the 1st two issues of Micronauts from 1979 the comic stating and depicting the
Microverse realms as simply being sub atomic realms within the atoms of the universe:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773737_7.jpg]

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773738_8.jpg]

It wasnt until later that it was retconned to state that the Microverse wasnt within the universes
atoms and wasnt sub atomic, but the nexuses to access it were sub atomic which necessitated
shrinking.

The many separate Microverses were later in 2000 changed to be one single Microverse:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773739_1.jpg]

The important point however is that at the time of the Beyonder scan,
the Microverses were small pocket dimensions found within the universes atoms.
Realms within a realm, which is why he visited them in demonstrating his observation,
that the universe is a multiverse in its own right, because it is composed of multiple dimensions.

Class dismissed

You should've stuck to comics instead of Wiki and the last/first page of Micronauts V1. #1 & 2, (1979)
which doesn't in any way support your stance concerning Beyonder.

Also,This Beyonder correlation you're fallaciously attributing to issues [u]V1. #1 & 2 is a straight up lie[/u]!

Especially when Secret Wars II first ties into the run in Micronauts V2. #16 (1985)

Not that it matters since issues 1 & 2 has nothing to do with what you're intentionally Falsely trying to sell here.

IN FACT! ... In the first fourteen issues of Version 2, it's explain several times over
how the "Makers" remade an entire Universe in their liking. How it's a another Universe, blah, blah.

Picked from UniverseS that were birthed via Big Bangs and ended in Entropy-Death. (literally stated)

You know, undoubtably actual entire whole UniverseS! From the actual All-Multi-Eternity Multiverse.

So you're full of it Nochio. Oh and yes, you got caught again. Ill memories from 05' I'm assuming.

===========================================

Anyway, I'll just move along with undeniable Proof,
that the Micro Cosmos that contained the Microverse was an entire whole Parallel Universe
remade by the Makers to suit their desires.

Many issues BEFORE Secret Wars II ... and every issue there after.

===========================================

*** This On Panel proof below concerns excerpts from Micronauts V2 #4 - 14 *** (1985)

The Beyonder scan from Hulk #313 ties to the Secret Wars II arc simultaneously with Micronauts in 1985.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually ... I also have excerpts from Micronauts V1 as well,
also clearly differentiating the Microverse as a separate Universe.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In your own words ... Lets begin (first I plug scenes from Micronauts V1 #14 and up)

Time Traveller himself states in reference to Reality 616:

"Now Karza knows that there are Other UniverseS Beyond the Microverse"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Baron Karza had conquered the Micro-Cosmos that contain the Microverse.

The Writer states about Karza after he discovers Reality 616:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773770_11.jpg]

"Broaden Karza's horizons ...
a madman who had conquered ONE Universe will never rest until he has them all"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

... Bah, this is un-nessary, I'll just cut to the chase.

Was the Microverse without question a separate entire Parallel Universe
during Classic Beyonder's reign?

The Beyonder scan we're discussing comes from SS II. A tie-ins during Hulk #312 & 313

Secret Wars II ... The Micronauts tie-ins (V. 2 #16) .. and the Hulk tie-ins were published in 1985.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll even throw in a 1984 arc where the X-Men & Micronauts joined to battle the "Entity."

Xavier:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773773_12.jpg]

"My thoughts cannot Breach the Spacewall separating Your Dimension" (Microverse) "from Ours"

-----------------------------------------------

The "Entity" states about the Microverse:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773778_13.jpg]

"As will shake The Universe to its very foundations"

-----------------------------------------------

The Writer states concerning Reality 616 and the Microverse:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773814_40.jpg]

"The fate of Two UniverseS hang in the balance"

-----------------------------------------------

Marionette states:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773815_41.jpg]

"We've been from one end of the Microverse to the other -- Beyond, to the Other Universe that contains Earth"

===========================================

How about WAY Before Secret Wars II ... Micronauts V1. #34 and up ... (1981)

===========================================

The Wanderers (in Micronauts V2) explain how Wayfinder led his people into the Micro-Cosmos
where he also created the galactic sized Microverse!

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773779_14.jpg]

"The Wayfinders led us to a gate, and then into This brave New Universe"

-----------------------------------------------

On panel support in Micronauts V1 #35 (1981)

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773780_15.jpg]

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773781_16.jpg]

-----------------------------------------------

The Microverse and 616 even come in contact and it would obliterate both UniverseS! (1981)

Dr Strange states:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773782_17.jpg]

"The Microverse and The Macroverse" (Reality-616) "from coming together in Cosmic Collision"

-----------------------------------------------

Dr Strange states concerning 616 and the Micro Cosmos containing the Microvere:

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773783_18.jpg]

"New menace rises up to threaten our chances of saving Two UniverseS"

-----------------------------------------------

Dr Strange again: (concerning 616 and the Microverse)

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773784_19.jpg]

"You would allow Two UniverseS to be destroyed"

-----------------------------------------------

Commander Raan is given a vision of what would happen if the Micro-Cosmos (contains the Microverse)
and Reality 616 were to come in contact.

The writer gives the exact reason I've been telling yall for years
WHY Two UniverseS (including pockets) can NOT be withIN the same Universe.

Interestingly enough, it only takes a piece of the Micro-Cosmos (like the Microverse)
to touch 616 and it goes to hell from there.

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773785_20.jpg]

"The Microverse expanding - encroaching on the Space occupied by Earth.
But no Two objects or UniverseS can occupy the same place in Time"

-----------------------------------------------

Dr Strange:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773802_21.jpg]

"This is the moment of truth for Two UniverseS"

-----------------------------------------------

The "Sword in the Star" itself tells us concerning 616 and the Micro Cosmos which are in danger:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773803_22.jpg]

"As the fate of your Two UniverseS"

-----------------------------------------------

The Writer column, Dr Strange and Raan: (as they fix the Spacewall via Captain Universe's power)

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773804_23.jpg]

"Strengthening it so that their UniverseS will never be in peril of Collision"

"The Microverse is saved"

"As is My Reality" (616)

-----------------------------------------------

===========================================

Let's go even further back. Hulk story ... he finds his way to the Micro-Cosmos: (1980)

Peter Gillis (writer) exposes the factual truth about the Micro-UniverseS!

Peter directly dismantles your "realms withIN realms" claim back in 1980. (5 years before Secret Wars)

===========================================

Hank Pym: (basically he tells us you can only shrink to a limit in A Universe)

"The thing is, the "worlds within worlds we've been using NO longer works!
Violate the Plank Limit and you drop Out of This Universe and into Another Parallel One.
Which we call a Micro World"

-----------------------------------------------

Anyway,
so Pym with tech, sends Hulk and his gal pal Universe hunting via shrinking pass Planck barriers)

(they pass by the Microverse)

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773806_25.jpg]

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773807_26.jpg]

===========================================

Fantastic Four - Byrne's run,1984 prior to Secret Wars II supports Pym's on panel truth:

"This is the Microverse, hm? Isn't how I'd pictured walking on a sub-atomic particle."

"That's because you're NOT, ... we now know This is Extra-Dimensional Space" ...

"I thought we were shrinking?"

"We were, but that somehow Pops us through into a Parallel Universe. We call it the Microverse"

===========================================

Ok, so back to Micronauts V2 #4 - 14 *** (1985) as promised.

Remember, Secret Wars II ties into Hulk #312 & Micronauts #16 in the SAME arc.

The Makers created the Micro Cosmos (a standalone entire separate Universe)
that's located outside 616.

It contains the Microverse. (the Micro Cosmos is usually referred to as the Microverse)
At its inception, this Cosmos was one of many Entire UniverseS,
that could only be accessed via shrinking beyond the sub-atomic scale
to the point where you literally pop OUT of the current Universe you were in,
and into a Parallel Universe that's located withIN the Multiverse of Infinite alternate realities,
but completely/totaly OUTSIDE the 616 Dimension.

(this Nexus creating shrinking affect,
can be applied from other Realities, e.g. Microverse to other Universes)

So, it's not in a "pocket-realm/dimension/universe" within 616, (no such thing anyway)
and it's not within the atoms of 616 either, not at all. (no such thing either)

I've proven conclusively and without doubt, that the Microverse and the Universe it's in,
along with ALL the Parallel/Alternate Realities that can be reached
via shrinking into a infinitesimal Nexus ... are ALL located Outside 616.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Microverse, (or Micro Cosmos) is a Parallel Universe Outside 616.

"In order to give This Universe meaning,
The Makers brought beings from the scattered UniverseS of Infinity
to populate."

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14753193_0.jpg]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Microverse was located in a Universe remade by the Makers.

Here we see more of the Cosmos around the Microverse.

The Microverse proper (Galaxy size) was surrounded by a barrier known as the "Spacewall."
The "Dreaming Star" is located withIN THIS Universe but FAR Beyond the "Spacewall
The "Spacewall" also separates the Microverse proper from the rest of its Cosmos,
and of course other universes.

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14753051_3.jpg]

"The Makers ... To have reshaped This Universe so it resembled the structure of life" ...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the literal explanation of how the Makers came to create the Micro Cosmos.

It leaves no doubt that they took an existing entire Parallel Reality & re-created it in their image.

"The Makers looked at UniverseS upon UniverseS --
saw their process from Big Bang to their Entropy-Death."

The Makers didn't like that. So they reshaped one of those Universes
that had a big bang & entropy-death, so that it would never die.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is All PRIOR to Secret Wars II!

All this is I have posted above is officially Marvel Handbook certified as the fact!

(Micronauts - Bio - 2006)

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773813_32.jpg]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Makers!

[img=http://s4d4.turboimagehost.com/t/14774003_9.jpg]

They Reshaped Cosmos

===========================================

If all that somehow does not suffice, heh, we have Micronauts V2 #16 itself (1985)
the actual tie-in from Secret Wars II where Beyonder appears:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773871_28.jpg]

"I am from Beyond!"

"You sound like you're from Earth" (616)

"From There" (616) "I looked through the Worlds Beyond Worlds --
and saw This Distant Universe" (Microverse) "was in trouble."

-----------------------------------------------

And when did Beyonder see "This Distant Universe[/u]"
while in 616, as he looked at universes beyond universes?

[[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773853_B_explores_Multiverse1.jpg]

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773854_B_explores_Multiverse2.jpg]

===========================================

In fact, these 3 scans seal my case!

Beyonder clearly tells us what he did prior in Reality 616:

"From There" (616) "I looked through the Worlds Beyond Worlds --
and saw This Distant Universe[/i]" (Microverse) "was in trouble."

***************************************

There is Beyonder back in 616, where he traversed the Planes (UniverseS) psychically in astral form.

Where he noticed Scion's cry as he passed by "That Distant Universe" the Microverse!

(whole page)

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773854_B_explores_Multiverse2.jpg]

(specific crop)

===========================================

Never again in your life
dare to submit this scan as proof for the 616 Universe or any Universe for that matter,
being a bull shit so called "multiverse" of sorts, or "type" of multiverse,
or any unsupported drivel that has no substance of any kind based on THIS scan,
THIS Story.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Class dismissed

After posting my name accompanied by all this garbage below:

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Once you have acknowledged your error on this point
i will move on to take apart the other points in your post one at a time.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

I think its clear our interpretation covers everything and accounts for all inconsistencies.

Mr Masters would call for us to overlook inconsistencies which should
tell him it isnt right.

But he has his version of the hierarchy to maintain
and its built on a couple of key flawed interpretations like this one.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Looking forward to the scan spammage coupled with your
predictable commentary painting a completely different picture to
whats actually stated in the scan. GREEEEEAT!

Now let me cut you off here quick-time.

Whats required here is for you to demonstrate how in this
particular set of scans the Beyonder is NOT saying that the universe
is a sort of mini multiverse in its own right.

You can lick your own ass and whoever else's you wish.

But You've been proven Wrong. I mean ... completely!

I disagree with everything that has been said in this thread.

A load of waffle that does not actually cater my original points at all, rather it nitpicks over wording and serves to confuse the issue through length and scan spammage in an attempt to look more impressive than it actually is 😬

The narration explicitly, in a non ambiguous statement likens the universe to a multiverse in its own right :

"A rather odd thing that he had noticed about our universe, namely that it is many layered composed of a seemingly endless number of dimensions. indeed it is a multiverse beckoning him to explore"

That is a very clear statement. He likens the universe to a multiverse and then the narration states that he is beckoned to explore this universe that is like a multiverse.

That is why when he does go to explore he doesnt end up in alternate future timelines like Days of Future Past or any What If storylines that had been published by this time. INSTEAD he ends up going to the likes of Asgard and Mephistos realms. Pocket dimensions connected to the universe again reflecting the previous statement that the universe is many layered:

Its quite clear to all other forum readers Mr Master. The statements arent ambiguous and able to be interpreted in many different ways. He just says plainly that hes noticed the universe is many layered containing other dimensions its a multiverse.

Stop trying to over complicate a simple to understand scene and misdirect from the truth in order to protect your version of the marvel hierarchy. A hierarchy which depends on every reference to multiverse meaning the proper divergent universe multiverse as opposed to accepting that some writers liberally use the word to apply to universes because as demonstrated marvels universes arent composed of one dimension, but are each collections of dimensions themselves.

Debate to seek and spread the truth, do not debate to try and preserve the popularity of your version of the marvel hierarchy. 👆

Originally posted by Mindset
^ I disagree.

👆

Its making a big deal out of nothing.

Essays and scan spammage all to preserve his OPINION of the marvel hierarchy.

The scan is non ambiguous and clear. It demonstrates the reasoning why, rightly or wrongly some writers liberally use the word multiverse in reference to the universe.

That should be the end of the matter. Simple scene, clearly structured.

However there is an agenda. So here comes the spam 😬

Yea, continue to ignore how much you banked on the Micronauts V1 issues #1 & 2.

What up biatch? Cat got your memory on that one.

Freaskin Liar! (Secret Wars II ties into Micronauts V2 #16) 6 years LATER!

You may fool some kinds in here, and your die hard buddy or two will help ya,
but you're a phucking fake in my book.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

A load of waffle that does not actually cater my original points at all, rather it nitpicks over wording and serves to confuse the issue through length and scan spammage in an attempt to look more impressive than it actually is

The narration explicitly, in a non ambiguous statement likens the universe to a multiverse in its own right :

"A rather odd thing that he had noticed about our universe, namely that it is many layered composed of a seemingly endless number of dimensions. indeed it is a multiverse beckoning him to explore"

That is a very clear statement. He likens the universe to a multiverse and then the narration states that he is beckoned to explore this universe that is like a multiverse.

That is why when he does go to explore he doesnt end up in alternate future timelines like Days of Future Past or any What If storylines that had been published by this time. INSTEAD he ends up going to the likes of Asgard and Mephistos realms. Pocket dimensions connected to the universe again reflecting the previous statement that the universe is many layered:

Its quite clear to all other forum readers Mr Master. The statements arent ambiguous and able to be interpreted in many different ways. He just says plainly that hes noticed the universe is many layered containing other dimensions its a multiverse.

Stop trying to over complicate a simple to understand scene and misdirect from the truth in order to protect your version of the marvel hierarchy. A hierarchy which depends on every reference to multiverse meaning the proper divergent universe multiverse as opposed to accepting that some writers liberally use the word to apply to universes because as demonstrated marvels universes arent composed of one dimension, but are each collections of dimensions themselves.

Debate to seek and spread the truth, do not debate to try and preserve the popularity of your version of the marvel hierarchy.

You get caught LYING about the Beyonder scan being connected
to 1979's Micronauts V1 issues #1 & 2.

Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with Secret Wars I or II.

I prove the Microverse is/was a SEPARATE Entire PARALLEL Universe!

BEFORE and DURING Secret Wars I & II.

Yet you shamelessly return with the same scan, 😐
with the same bull shit explanation.

You've officially entered the Troll zone
and are not worthy of acknowledgement anymore.

Originally posted by Mr Master

========================================

If all that somehow does not suffice, heh, we have Micronauts V2 #16 itself (1985)
the actual tie-in from Secret Wars II where Beyonder appears:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773871_28.jpg]

"I am from Beyond!"

"You sound like you're from Earth" (616)

"From There" (616) "I looked through the Worlds Beyond Worlds --
and saw This Distant Universe" (Microverse) "was in trouble."

-----------------------------------------------

And when did Beyonder see "This Distant Universe[/u]"
while in 616, as he looked at universes beyond universes?

[[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773853_B_explores_Multiverse1.jpg]

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773854_B_explores_Multiverse2.jpg]

Exactly, when he was exploring the Multiverse and passed y the Microverse!

===========================================

******** In fact, these 3 scans seal my case ************

Beyonder clearly tells us what he did prior in Reality 616:

"From There" (616) "I looked through the Worlds Beyond Worlds --
and saw This Distant Universe" (Microverse) "was in trouble."

***************************************

There is Beyonder back in 616,
where he traversed the Planes (UniverseS) psychically in astral form.

Where he noticed Scion's cry as he passed by "That Distant Universe" the Microverse!

(whole page)

[img=http://s4d2.turboimagehost.com/t/14773854_B_explores_Multiverse2.jpg]

(specific crop)

===========================================

You got slayed on this one,
at-least have some decency and bow out quietly
if your ego is too much to concede like a man.

But you're really making an Ass of yourself to return with snide, personal vomit.

Originally posted by Mr Master
You truly are a child.

You get caught LYING about the Beyonder scan being connected
to [b]1979's Micronauts V1 issues #1 & 2.

Which has absolutely NOTHING to do with Secret Wars I or II.

I prove the Microverse is/was a SEPARATE Entire PARALLEL Universe!

BEFORE and DURING Secret Wars I & II.

Yet you shamelessly return with the same scan, 😐
with the same bull shit explanation.

You've officially entered the Troll zone
and are not worthy of acknowledgement anymore.

Grow up and be a man dogs.

You got slayed on this one,
at-least have some decency and bow out quietly
if you ego is too much to concede like a man.

But you're really making an Ass of yourself to return with snide, personal vomit. [/B]

Lying?

I explained the history of retcons of the Microverse from being called realms within realms because they were nothing but dimensions within the universes atoms, to being realms accessed by shrinking etc.

The Microverses were not alternate or divergent universes, but realms accessible from within the universe through sub atomic nexuses. Realms found within realms as opposed to completely leaving the universe to travel to an alternate reality.

And notice how the Microverse realms were viewed from the outside whilst he was still in 616. Realms within realms.

All in keeping with his statement that the universe is many layered 🙂

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

Lying?

I explained the history of retcons of the Microverse from being
called realms within realms because they were nothing but
dimensions within the universes atoms, to being realms accessed
by shrinking etc.

The Microverses were not alternate or divergent universes, but
realms accessible from within the universe through sub atomic
nexuses.

Realms found within realms as opposed to completely
leaving the universe to travel to an alternate reality.

And notice how the Microverse realms were viewed from the
outside whilst he was still in 616.

Realms within realms.

Still fallaciously presenting the scan after the overwhelming PROOF I posted.

You have no honor.

Be a man, for once.

Take your "realms withIN realms" bull shit to the sandbox.

Originally posted by Mr Master

===========================================

Let's go even further back. Hulk story ... he finds his way to the Micro-Cosmos: (1980)

It directly dismantles your "realms withIN realms" claim back in 1980. (5 years before Secret Wars)

===========================================

Hank Pym: (basically he tells us you can only shrink to a limit in A Universe)

"The thing is, the 'worlds within worlds' model we've been using NO longer works!

Violate the Plank Limit and you drop Out of This Universe and into Another PARALLEL One.

Which we call a Micro World"

-----------------------------------------------

Anyway,
so Pym with tech, sends Hulk and his gal pal Universe hunting via shrinking pass Planck barriers)

(they pass by the Microverse)

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773806_25.jpg]

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773807_26.jpg]

===========================================

Fantastic Four - Byrne's run,1984 prior to Secret Wars II supports Pym's on panel truth:

"This is the Microverse, hm? Isn't how I'd pictured walking on a sub-atomic particle."

"That's because you're NOT, ... we now know This is Extra-Dimensional Space" ...

"I thought we were shrinking?"

"We were, but that somehow Pops us through into a Parallel Universe. We call it the Microverse"

===========================================

Originally posted by Mr Master
Still LYING!

Still fallaciously presenting the scan after the overwhelming PROOF I posted.

You have no honor.

Be a man, for once.

Tale your "realms withIN realms" bull shit to the sandbox.

You're diggin yourself in deeper into your bull shit.

I think theres some crossed wires here because im doing no lying here at all.

I think youre trying to fabricate a fallcy here to support a losing battle 😬

All this comes down to is instead of visiting alternate realities as he would if he was conducting an exploration of the proper multiverse, he visits Asgard, Hel and views the Microverse, realms accessible from microscopic door ways within the universe. Realms within realms.

You havent changed a thing 😐

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

I think theres some crossed wires here because im doing no lying here at all.

I think youre trying to fabricate a fallcy here to support a losing battle.

Cool, I'm game.

So you think I'm "trying to fabricate a fallcy here to support a losing battle."

You're gonna eat those words ... after knowing you're wrong on this one,
you again come back defiant Trolling like never before.

Ok, for our audience I will do this.

Originally posted by GalacticStorm

All this comes down to is instead of visiting alternate realities as
he would if he was conducting an exploration of the proper
multiverse, he visits Asgard, Hel

and views the Microverse,

realms accessible from microscopic door ways within the universe.

Realms within realms.

You havent changed a thing

So you want an embarrassment truck to drive up your chocolate highway?

No problem.

Galactic Nochio,
you continue to fallaciously state that the Microverse was some realm
located within the Atoms of the Universe,
or the other drivel,
that it's "Realms withIN a Realms" as in a Realm withIN the 616 Universe,
during Secret Wars II in 1985!

That's a LIE!

-----------------------------------------------

Hank Pym 1980 - (5 years BEFORE SS II)
specifically targets your childish incessantness to stick to "Realms withIN Realm"

"The thing is, the 'Worlds within Worlds' model we've been using NO longer works!

Violate the Plank Limit and you drop Out of This Universe and into Another PARALLEL ONE.

Which we call a MICRO WORLD"

*** One of those "Micro-Worlds" he's talking about is the Microverse!

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/14773807_26.jpg]

I mean, seriously, right there you're whole argument goes out the window.

But the Fantastic Four follow up on that in 1984

-----------------------------------------------

Reed Richards & FF - 1984 - (1 Year BEFORE SS II)

"This is the Microverse, hm? Isn't how I'd pictured walking on a sub-atomic particle."

"That's because you're NOT, ... we now know This is Extra-Dimensional Space" ...

"I thought we were shrinking?"

"We were, but that somehow Pops us through into a Parallel Universe. We call it the Microverse"

-----------------------------------------------

Commander Raan and Dr Strange - 1981 - (4 Years BEFORE SS II)

It only takes a piece of the Micro-Cosmos (like the Microverse)
to touch 616 and it would obliterate BOTH UniverseS:

"The Microverse expanding - encroaching on the Space occupied by Earth.

But no Two objects or UniverseS can NOT occupy the same place in Time"

-------

"You would allow Two UniverseS to be destroyed"

-----------------------------------------------

Commander Raan - 1984 (1 Year BEFOR SSII)

"The Makers ... To have reshaped This Universe" (Micro Cosmos which contains the Micro-verse)
so it resembled the structure of life" ...

===========================

The clincher!

===========================

Beyonder himself calls the Microverse A DISTANT UNIVERSE!

Beyonder noticed the Microverse when he went looking at UniverseS BEYOND UniverseS
before locating Bruce Banner.

NOT Universes withIN Universes as GS is saying ... That's a LIE!

Beyonder (1985 - DURING SS II)

"I am from Beyond!"

"You sound like you're from Earth" (616)

"From There" (616) "I looked through the Worlds Beyond Worlds --
and saw This Distant Universe" (Microverse) "was in trouble."

********* IS THIS TRUE? **********

Did Beyonder really look at UniverseS BEYOND UniverseS while sitting in 616
and noticed a DISTANT Universe called the Microverse in his journey?

✅ ... back in the Hulk tie-in!

Beyonder sitting in 616 acknowledges there's more than just a Universe in Marvel
this is actually an infinite Multiverse of UniverseS:

Beyonder went looking for Bruce,
who was WAY OUTSIDE 616 in Another Dimension called the "CrossRoads of Infinity"
located in the Neagtive Zone which is also located OUTSIDE 616. (remember Annihilation)

But he enjoyed the scenic view across the Myriad Planes (universeS)
as he traveled to the CrossRoads!

Beyonder passes by the Microverse (A DISTANT Universe BEYOND UniverseS)
and off-panel noticed Scion's cry who told us in Micronauts V2 #16.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Now, I could care less for your personal intransigent perspective.

But if you return with more poppycock you'll be Reported for Trolling.

Was the Micro Cosmos that contains the Microverse a Parallel Universe Outside 616
during Secret Wars II published in 1985?

Was the Micro Cosmos an Alternate Universe from the infinity of the Multiverse
taken by the "Makers" and re-made in their liking into the Micro-Cosmos
during Secret Wars II published in 1985?

YES!

According to:

Hank Pym 1980 - (5 years BEFORE SS II)

Reed Richards & FF - 1984 - (1 Year BEFORE SS II)

Commander Raan and Dr Strange - 1981 - (4 Years BEFORE SS II)

Commander Raan - 1984 (1 Year BEFOR SSII)

Beyonder (1985 - DURING SS II)

... and explicitly so every single issue AFTER Micronauts V1 #25 (1981)

-------------------------------------------------------------

Now ... you can say: "Class Dismissed"

Abraxas decisively

Why can't we all get along?