Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderAlbus took him on. He failed.
Remove Harry from the equation and Dumbledore obliterates Voldemort!Dumbledore was just protecting Harry. Dumbledore was never on the attack! Voldemort on the other hand gave Dumbledore everything he had! Yet Dumbledore was just there like, please is that all you got!?
We haven't seen much of Grindelwald, but when we do you'll see he is stronger.
The books depict him stronger, just like LoTR depicts Morgoth stronger than Sauron.
This is a similar case, Morgoth will always be stronger than Sauron. Or are you going to say that Sauron is stronger than Morgoth just because we've never seen Morgoth on screen!!!!???
This is not even debatable. Dumbledore defeats Voldemort. Period.
He sent his own spells against Voldemort. He tried killing him with fire and using the water. That's attacking.
Dumbledore was his backside and looked scared shitless. He also couldn't stop Tom from possessing Harry. He watched on in horror. Films only and they depict Voldemort as stronger.
Morgoth is the original master and Sauron is his servant. This was stated in the film. Books aren't fair game here and we have a distinct interaction between the two in which Albus had the most powerful wand in existence.
Voldemort clearly wins. He doesn't even need the elder wand to do so. He had Albus on the ropes.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Albus took him on. He failed.He sent his own spells against Voldemort. He tried killing him with fire and using the water. That's attacking.
Dumbledore was his backside and looked scared shitless. He also couldn't stop Tom from possessing Harry. He watched on in horror. Films only and they depict Voldemort as stronger.
Morgoth is the original master and Sauron is his servant. This was stated in the film. Books aren't fair game here and we have a distinct interaction between the two in which Albus had the most powerful wand in existence.
Voldemort clearly wins. He doesn't even need the elder wand to do so. He had Albus on the ropes.
No.
Albus was on a defense position, not attack. That isnt even debatable. Look at the movie.
If albus was to take Voldemort 1 to 1 Voldemort loses. Voldemort gave it all trying to attack Albus and he was just like, please just get away!
No. LoTR just mentions that Melkor was master to Sauron. It never said, if Melkor fights Sauron, then Sauron loses (But ofcourse we know that). Samething happens here, although it is not said, Grindelwald beats Voldemort.
What makes Voldemort so fearsome are the horrocruxes. Which make Voldemort basically immortal, unless these are destroy.
But when we talk about skills with the wand, Voldermort isnt the strongest.
The list goes:
Albus
Grindelwald
Harry
Voldemort
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderThat is how duels work. Both attacked each other. Albus clearly attacked with a water bubble. 😂
No.Albus was on a defense position, not attack. That isnt even debatable. Look at the movie.
If albus was to take Voldemort 1 to 1 Voldemort loses. Voldemort gave it all trying to attack Albus and he was just like, please just get away!
No. LoTR just mentions that Melkor was master to Sauron. It never said, if Melkor fights Sauron, then Sauron loses (But ofcourse we know that). Samething happens here, although it is not said, Grindelwald beats Voldemort.
What makes Voldemort so fearsome are the horrocruxes. Which make Voldemort basically immortal, unless these are destroy.
But when we talk about skills with the wand, Voldermort isnt the strongest.
The list goes:
Albus
Grindelwald
Harry
Voldemort
Your opinion is just speculation. We have the facts.
I know but being his servant and using common sense I surmised Morgoth would win. This doesn't pertain to Voldemort and Albus in any way. We actually have the film people admit Voldemort to be the best in the special features.
What makes Voldemort so fearsome is his power and his mindset.
That list is pure cringe.
Originally posted by quanchi112
That is how duels work. Both attacked each other. Albus clearly attacked with a water bubble. 😂Your opinion is just speculation. We have the facts.
I know but being his servant and using common sense I surmised Morgoth would win. This doesn't pertain to Voldemort and Albus in any way. We actually have the film people admit Voldemort to be the best in the special features.
What makes Voldemort so fearsome is his power and his mindset.
That list is pure cringe.
Cause he was on a defense mode, not an attack mode. He was just defending Potter, not worried on defeating Voldemort. Voldemort on the other hand, he wanted to kill them. So again, Albus always had control over the fight. He wasn't scared, or worried.
What facts?
No. Not really, what happens after the master dies? Sauron made the Power Ring after Morgoths dead. So according to your logic, since Morgoth has never been seen going agaisnt a power ring, then Sauron stomps Morgoth. Am just using the same logic you always bring into fights.
But obviously all of us know Morgoth is way above Sauron although it was never stated on screen. See? Your logic isn't that effective.
Grindelwald is above Voldemort. Voldemort's true power lies in his horrocruxes, but Grindelwald is better with the wand.
Which film people?
If you think Voldemort is way on top your are misinformed. Voldemort could barely go against an old Albus! Grindelwald fought Albus for days, in what is known as the mightiest magic duels in history! So don't come and tell me Voldemort is so amazing!
In Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find them Grindelwald went against the Aurors solo like if they were kids just bothering him! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HERsolqyZc
Voldemort ran from the Ministery department because a couple of wizzards were coming!!! Grindelwald is WAY ABOVE Voldemort!
Albus STOMPS Voldemort.
Hey Quanchi inform yourself!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOV6Yp-VmBU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtJxRrzY6m4
I still think Harry is above Voldemort, since he managed to defeat him.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderA duel has both offense and defense involved in it. He attacked Voldemort to kill twice. His facial expressions say something altogether. Fear.
Cause he was on a defense mode, not an attack mode. He was just defending Potter, not worried on defeating Voldemort. Voldemort on the other hand, he wanted to kill them. So again, Albus always had control over the fight. He wasn't scared, or worried.
Facts of the duel.
What facts?No. Not really, what happens after the master dies? Sauron made the Power Ring after Morgoths dead. So according to your logic, since Morgoth has never been seen going agaisnt a power ring, then Sauron stomps Morgoth. Am just using the same logic you always bring into fights.
Yes, after one guy died another rose to power. When both existed Morgoth was the master. He was a servant to Morgoth.
Being a servant implies inferiority here. My logic is sound but there isn't a cure all to every scenario. Your comparison is not good that pertains to Voldemort and Grindelwald.
But obviously all of us know Morgoth is way above Sauron although it was never stated on screen. See? Your logic isn't that effective.[/B][/B]
False. Voldemort was harder to kill due to his horcruxes but his wizards was unmatched. Griendelwald is never stated to be superior to Voldemort and he also lost to the wizard unable to best Tom Riddle.Grindelwald is above Voldemort. Voldemort's true power lies in his horrocruxes, but Grindelwald is better with the wand.
Which film people?
If you think Voldemort is way on top your are misinformed. Voldemort could barely go against an old Albus! Grindelwald fought Albus for days, in what is known as the mightiest magic duels in history! So don't come and tell me Voldemort is so amazing!
In Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find them Grindelwald went against the Aurors solo like if they were kids just bothering him! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HERsolqyZc
Voldemort ran from the Ministery department because a couple of wizzards were coming!!! Grindelwald is WAY ABOVE Voldemort!
Albus STOMPS Voldemort. [/B]
Special features of the order of the Phoenix.
That means these two fought a longer drawn out fight in which Grindelwald lost. That doesn't denote any superiority to Voldemort whatsoever.
He got beat rather handily.
Voldemort was up against Albus and the other wizards. He lost to Albus without the aid of another.
Nah, the film proves you wrong once again. A guy unable to win you claim stomps. Evidence says otherwise you just have a baseless opinion.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderYou are ignoring the context of why this occurred. You're also ignoring Harry fleeing, being disarmed and aided by Albus, and taking on Voldemort while his wand betrayed him. At no point was Harry's skill ever a match or even comparable to Voldemort. This is utterly ridiculous. Context always matters. The mountain of resistance that plotted years against Voldemort is also being ignored by saying Harry is better. It's insane. Voldemort is the greatest wizard the world had ever seen.
Hey Quanchi inform yourself!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOV6Yp-VmBU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtJxRrzY6m4
I still think Harry is above Voldemort, since he managed to defeat him.
Originally posted by quanchi112
A duel has both offense and defense involved in it. He attacked Voldemort to kill twice. His facial expressions say something altogether. Fear.
Facts of the duel.Yes, after one guy died another rose to power. When both existed Morgoth was the master. He was a servant to Morgoth.
Being a servant implies inferiority here. My logic is sound but there isn't a cure all to every scenario. Your comparison is not good that pertains to Voldemort and Grindelwald.False. Voldemort was harder to kill due to his horcruxes but his wizards was unmatched. Griendelwald is never stated to be superior to Voldemort and he also lost to the wizard unable to best Tom Riddle.
Special features of the order of the Phoenix.
That means these two fought a longer drawn out fight in which Grindelwald lost. That doesn't denote any superiority to Voldemort whatsoever.
He got beat rather handily.
Voldemort was up against Albus and the other wizards. He lost to Albus without the aid of another.
Nah, the film proves you wrong once again. A guy unable to win you claim stomps. Evidence says otherwise you just have a baseless opinion.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are ignoring the context of why this occurred. You're also ignoring Harry fleeing, being disarmed and aided by Albus, and taking on Voldemort while his wand betrayed him. At no point was Harry's skill ever a match or even comparable to Voldemort. This is utterly ridiculous. Context always matters. The mountain of resistance that plotted years against Voldemort is also being ignored by saying Harry is better. It's insane. Voldemort is the greatest wizard the world had ever seen.
You are simoly not well informed my friend. Go do some research okay.
Albus Dumbledore is the gretaest wizzard of his time.
Grindelwald follows him
Harry defeated Voldemort
So Voldemort is number 4.
Your logic goes against you. It was never stated in the films that Morgoth is above the ring of power. So again, your logic isnt good.
Voldemort isnt the best duelist. He was stopped easily by Albus.
Albus had a better fight against Grindelwald.
Yiu are the only one supporting Voldemort here based on nothing.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderI told you the evidence supports Voldemort in the films. He has greater feats(shield destroying feat), and his combative showing against an elder wand sporting Albus.
You are simoly not well informed my friend. Go do some research okay.Albus Dumbledore is the gretaest wizzard of his time.
Grindelwald follows him
Harry defeated Voldemort
So Voldemort is number 4.Your logic goes against you. It was never stated in the films that Morgoth is above the ring of power. So again, your logic isnt good.
Voldemort isnt the best duelist. He was stopped easily by Albus.
Albus had a better fight against Grindelwald.
Yiu are the only one supporting Voldemort here based on nothing.
Voldemort defeated Harry in a fair duel. If a guy is dueling another man and his gun is rigged that doesn't mean the guy with the functional gun has greater skill.
It was stated Sauron is his servant. Why would Sauron follow someone weaker than himself ?
Albus had the greatest wand and failed to best him. Voldemort is the greatest wizard.
Based off the evidence, bonus features, and feats all support Voldemort over Albus.
Grindelwald has done nothing to suggest he's even close to Voldemort's level.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I told you the evidence supports Voldemort in the films. He has greater feats(shield destroying feat), and his combative showing against an elder wand sporting Albus.Voldemort defeated Harry in a fair duel. If a guy is dueling another man and his gun is rigged that doesn't mean the guy with the functional gun has greater skill.
It was stated Sauron is his servant. Why would Sauron follow someone weaker than himself ?
Albus had the greatest wand and failed to best him. Voldemort is the greatest wizard.
Based off the evidence, bonus features, and feats all support Voldemort over Albus.
Grindelwald has done nothing to suggest he's even close to Voldemort's level.
Lol, Voldemort isn't the best magician! Screen doesn't support him, in that sense Screen supports Sauron being better than Melkor since we have never seen Melkor on screen! Again that logic of yours helps none!
Albus Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, which if you didn't know, had the elder wand. Albus took the Elder Wand from Grindelwald.
Voldemort never defeated Albus, he couldn't even hurt him! Albus never attacked Voldermort, he was only defending himself. Again Voldermort is far inferior to Albus.
Most powerful Harry Potter Wizzards:
1. Albus Dumbledore
2. Garret Grindelwald
3. Harry Potter
4. Voldemort
1. Albus Dumbeldore defeated Grindelwald which had the elder wand! That puts him AUTOMATICALLY over Grindelwald.
2. Grindelwald manage give a good LOOOONGGGGG fight to Albus. Who was young and in his peak of power. Grindelwald is below Albus.
3. Voldemort couldn't damage an Old Albus who was protecting Harry. That puts Voldemort beneath both Albus and Grindelwald. He simply doesn't reach the level to give a good fight to any of this too. He isn't a master duelist.
4. Harry Potter defeated and killed Voldemort in the end. That puts him over Voldemort.
If you can't accept that, then go and do your own investigation.
Originally posted by Josh_Alexanderthe feats do support him. We don't see Sauron so we don't have a valid comparison whereas we see a variety of Albus to make the comparison. We have Sauron being his servant which logically supports he's weaker since the bad guys don't follow weak lovey types.
Lol, Voldemort isn't the best magician! Screen doesn't support him, in that sense Screen supports Sauron being better than Melkor since we have never seen Melkor on screen! Again that logic of yours helps none
Yes, which supports how great Voldemort is since Albus held the elder wand and he didn't defeat Voldemort but he did beat Grindey without it. Point me.
Albus Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald, which if you didn't know, had the elder wand. Albus took the Elder Wand from Grindelwald.[/B]
Ok sending fire and attempting to drown someone are forms of attacks. If you can't recognize those are two forms of attack then you aren't being honest.
Voldemort never defeated Albus, he couldn't even hurt him! Albus never attacked Voldermort, he was only defending himself. Again Voldermort is far inferior to Albus. [/B]
You just repeat yourself and ignore the events of the film.
Based on what are those guys more powerful than Voldemort ?
Most powerful Harry Potter Wizzards:
1. Albus Dumbledore
2. Garret Grindelwald
3. Harry Potter
4. Voldemort1. Albus Dumbeldore defeated Grindelwald which had the elder wand! That puts him AUTOMATICALLY over Grindelwald.
2. Grindelwald manage give a good LOOOONGGGGG fight to Albus. Who was young and in his peak of power. Grindelwald is below Albus.
3. Voldemort couldn't damage an Old Albus who was protecting Harry. That puts Voldemort beneath both Albus and Grindelwald. He simply doesn't reach the level to give a good fight to any of this too. He isn't a master duelist.
4. Harry Potter defeated and killed Voldemort in the end. That puts him over Voldemort.If you can't accept that, then go and do your own investigation. [/B]
1. Already refuted.
2. Who cares ? Albus won without the best wand but failed to best Volde with the best wand. Point me.
3. He dictated the duel and looked superior despite Albus having the greatest wand in the land.
4. I explained the context you ignored it. This is why you frustrate other posters you ignore context and repeat baseless opinions.
Originally posted by quanchi112
the feats do support him. We don't see Sauron so we don't have a valid comparison whereas we see a variety of Albus to make the comparison. We have Sauron being his servant which logically supports he's weaker since the bad guys don't follow weak lovey types.Yes, which supports how great Voldemort is since Albus held the elder wand and he didn't defeat Voldemort but he did beat Grindey without it. Point me.
Ok sending fire and attempting to drown someone are forms of attacks. If you can't recognize those are two forms of attack then you aren't being honest.You just repeat yourself and ignore the events of the film.
Based on what are those guys more powerful than Voldemort ?1. Already refuted.
2. Who cares ? Albus won without the best wand but failed to best Volde with the best wand. Point me.
3. He dictated the duel and looked superior despite Albus having the greatest wand in the land.4. I explained the context you ignored it. This is why you frustrate other posters you ignore context and repeat baseless opinions.
UFFF QUANCHI! You just never give up don't you!?
1: Your logic is senseless. We have seen more from Sauron than from Melkor, therefore Melkor loses according to you.
2: Albus is the best wizzard! Do some research, you'll see am not tricking you.
3. Voldemort is the biggest villain yes. But we are talking about the best duelist here! Grindelwald wasn't as bad in terms of all the destruction caused. But Grindelwald was a better Duelist than Voldemort! Again do some research if you don't believe me.
4. Harry killed Voldemort. That Automathically puts Harry on top.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderWhat feat do these other wizards have that is greater than Voldemort's shield destroying feat.
UFFF QUANCHI! You just never give up don't you!?1: Your logic is senseless. We have seen more from Sauron than from Melkor, therefore Melkor loses according to you.
2: Albus is the best wizzard! Do some research, you'll see am not tricking you.
3. Voldemort is the biggest villain yes. But we are talking about the best duelist here! Grindelwald wasn't as bad in terms of all the destruction caused. But Grindelwald was a better Duelist than Voldemort! Again do some research if you don't believe me.
4. Harry killed Voldemort. That Automathically puts Harry on top.
1. I said so but we haven't seen anything from Morgoth. I already explained my reasoning whereas you repeat yourself.
2. That isn't evidence that's just you restating your position.
3. Based off what ? We see a common opponent. Grinde has the best wand and lost. Voldemort didn't have the best wand and he didn't lose.
4. No, that's silly. It's like saying the guy killed Sauron therefore he is more powerful. Words have meaning. I listed the context and no one in their right mind says Harry is a better wizard than Voldemort. J.K. Rowling and everyone associated in the film would find that to be ridiculous. Harry faced overwhelming odds which is a usual trope for heroes against the great villain they face.
Originally posted by quanchi112
What feat do these other wizards have that is greater than Voldemort's shield destroying feat.1. I said so but we haven't seen anything from Morgoth. I already explained my reasoning whereas you repeat yourself.
2. That isn't evidence that's just you restating your position.
3. Based off what ? We see a common opponent. Grinde has the best wand and lost. Voldemort didn't have the best wand and he didn't lose.
4. No, that's silly. It's like saying the guy killed Sauron therefore he is more powerful. Words have meaning. I listed the context and no one in their right mind says Harry is a better wizard than Voldemort. J.K. Rowling and everyone associated in the film would find that to be ridiculous. Harry faced overwhelming odds which is a usual trope for heroes against the great villain they face.
Destroying a shield doesn't make him the best duelist.
Albus or Grindelwald could do it.
1. Sauron beats Melkor. Your logic proves so. But again i know that is not so, cause your logic isn't correct.
2. Go do some research.
3. Voldemort lost to Harry Potter, and he had the Elder Wand!
Voldemort is number 4 on the list. Until you can prove otherwise.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderI didn't say it did but I did say it's the most impressive feat in the mythos thus far.
Destroying a shield doesn't make him the best duelist.Albus or Grindelwald could do it.
1. Sauron beats Melkor. Your logic proves so. But again i know that is not so, cause your logic isn't correct.
2. Go do some research.
3. Voldemort lost to Harry Potter, and he had the Elder Wand!
Voldemort is number 4 on the list. Until you can prove otherwise.
1. No, you ignored my logic and repeated yourself. We don't see Morgoth. We see Albus and Voldemort. Sauron follows someone stronger than him. It doesn't make sense for him not to unless you believe so explain why.
2. You made the claim. You concede then.
3. The elder wand didn't obey him so it wasn't a fair matchup. It obeyed Harry. I've explained this. We see Voldemort casually disarm him in OOTP. That's a win.
Nah, your opinions aren't facts. Evidence and context supports me.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't say it did but I did say it's the most impressive feat in the mythos thus far.1. No, you ignored my logic and repeated yourself. We don't see Morgoth. We see Albus and Voldemort. Sauron follows someone stronger than him. It doesn't make sense for him not to unless you believe so explain why.
2. You made the claim. You concede then.
3. The elder wand didn't obey him so it wasn't a fair matchup. It obeyed Harry. I've explained this. We see Voldemort casually disarm him in OOTP. That's a win.
Nah, your opinions aren't facts. Evidence and context supports me.
Albus or Grindelwald could have done so. And the Shield was already weakened by the attacks of the other wizzards.
1. Its your logic i am using here Quanchi. Nothing else.
2. The wand didn't obey Grindelwald when he fought Albus neither! Yet he held Albus for hours!!
3. Go research Quanchi, inform yourself.
Originally posted by Josh_AlexanderThey didn't do so. I take it you agree Voldemort has the best power feat. The wand also resisted and he still do so making it far more impressive.
Albus or Grindelwald could have done so. And the Shield was already weakened by the attacks of the other wizzards.1. Its your logic i am using here Quanchi. Nothing else.
2. The wand didn't obey Grindelwald when he fought Albus neither! Yet he held Albus for hours!!
3. Go research Quanchi, inform yourself.
1. No, you're misapplying it to an entirely different situation. I've stated this and told you why. You repeat yourself and don't address the point.
2. What ? Prove it.
3. If you make the claim and don't prove it you concede. That's how debating works.
Originally posted by quanchi112
They didn't do so. I take it you agree Voldemort has the best power feat. The wand also resisted and he still do so making it far more impressive.1. No, you're misapplying it to an entirely different situation. I've stated this and told you why. You repeat yourself and don't address the point.
2. What ? Prove it.
3. If you make the claim and don't prove it you concede. That's how debating works.
1. Read your upper statement. Is similar to: Melkor has never been seen defeating Sauron with power ring, therefore Sauron is stronger. That's how your logic sounds.
2. Quanchi, go research man! I can't do the research for you! I have done my own research. Grindelwald is above Voldermort just like Albus is! Go and research and then come back and answer.
3. We are here to debate not educate people! Before replying to a thread you should investigate both sides and draw your conclusions.
I have given you my reasons why Voldemort loses.