Originally posted by Esau CairnThat's what made TDKR shit.
The moment Miranda reveals herself as Talia, it becomes obviously apparent that Bane was a)never in charge, b) following her orders & c) hopelessly in love & faithful to Talia.A love that Talia didn't give back but exploited in Bane.
This doesn't make Bane her b#tch but a faithful follower.
In the end, it's Talia's plans to follow in her father's plan to destroy Gotham, not Bane.
Well, part of the reason.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
lol at "working with". Bane was working FOR Talia, becuase he was in love with her. He was her top lieutenant and most loyal man. But he was her subordinate. She was in charge. He was, by definition of the word, her henchman.
And where is any of this stated in the movie? Everything you said is either opinion or speculation.
Not one line of dialogue implies that Bane was "in love" with anybody.
Nowhere does anyone say in the movie that Bane was a lieutenant or a subordinate.
Nowhere does it say that Talia was "in charge".
Talia obviously had a very high position in the League of Shadows, and most likely came up with the IDEA of destroying Gotham, but there's nothing to suggest that she came up with the logistics, the strategy, the resources, or anything else. We know next to nothing about her or how the LOS operates. We do know, however, that Bane has the respect and fear of all of the real henchmen, who follow his orders blindly, and he did not follow Talia's order to leave Batman alive or fall into some type of deference when he was around her.
Personally, I think that they saw one another as friends and equals. They were co-conspirators, with Talia as the figurehead, and Bane as the one doing 99% of the planning and field work. Exactly like how the "Henri Ducard"/Decoy Ra's Al Ghul relationship seemed to work in Batman Begins.
The Joker is obviously the better villain, and I believe Ledger deserved that Oscar, death or not. TDKR was a fun film, but it's like IM3, it's just a popcorn flick that you enjoy while watching and then nitpick right after. TDK wasn't just some popcorn film. It was an actual philosophical tale that rooted to the core of not only the theme and message of Batman (and the Joker and their comparable nature), but the abstract concepts of "Order vs Chaos", "Faith vs Nihilism", "The limits of the human will", and so on. That's why TDK is not only the shining example of the series and one of the best superhero films ever, but on of the best films ever period. It had a message and meaning to it. I just didn't get that from TDKR. I mean there were messages there, but it was generic stuff you see in superhero films like "hold on to hope" and such. There wasn't a philosophical weight to it like there was TDK. Maybe I'm wrong?
I would definitely have to say the Joker. Not taking away anything from Heath’s performance, the movie script was centered on the Joker.
I believe this is the only Batman movie in which the script is centered on the villain instead of Batman. It was obvious that Nolan wanted the Joker to be the centered of attention and it came across that way.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
Not one line of dialogue implies that Bane was "in love" with anybody.Nowhere does anyone say in the movie that Bane was a lieutenant or a subordinate.
Nowhere does it say that Talia was "in charge".
Talia obviously had a very high position in the League of Shadows, and most likely came up with the IDEA of destroying Gotham, but there's nothing to suggest that she came up with the logistics, the strategy, the resources, or anything else.
You're forgetting that when Batman finally rips those tubes & Bane is slowly dying & in pain, Talia says (something like), "Goodbye, my love."
You're also forgetting that Talia masqueraded for years as Miranda Tate trying to gain Bruce's trust with his fusion reactor project. This does SUGGEST she came up with the logistics , the strategy, the resources finally using Bane to carry out her plans to destroy Gotham.
Bane had nothing personal against Gotham, he was simply following Talia's orders.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
You're also forgetting that Talia masqueraded for years as Miranda Tate trying to gain Bruce's trust with his fusion reactor project. This does SUGGEST she came up with the logistics , the strategy, the resources finally using Bane to carry out her plans to destroy Gotham
No it doesn't.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
He's not wrong. It doesn't suggest anything. Her character was terrible and ridiculously used, the movie suggested nothing at all.
Regardless of a terrible character ridiculously used, Miranda AKA Talia DID get her hands on Bruce's fusion reactor by playing on his trust & conscience.
Her strategy, her ploy, her planning WORKED.
As Miranda, she must've spent years establishing herself in the social circles of Gotham's wealthiest to be able to cross paths with Bruce & show an interest that he took seriously.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
Regardless of a terrible character ridiculously used, Miranda AKA Talia DID get her hands on Bruce's fusion reactor by playing on his trust & conscience.
Her strategy, her ploy, her planning WORKED.As Miranda, she must've spent years establishing herself in the social circles of Gotham's wealthiest to be able to cross paths with Bruce & show an interest that he took seriously.
That just means that Talia was a sleeper agent. It doesn't make her the mastermind. She COULD have been the mastermind and simply chose to drop herself into the middle of things because she likes to live dangerously, but there's not enough info to tell one way or the other.
On the other hand, we can take an educated guess from Bane's comment of "Five, by my count" when he was talking to Dr. Pavel that he at least knows a little bit about nuclear physics, and based on some other comments near the beginning that he and Pavel knew each other in some fashion before the events of the movie. I think it's more likely that the fusion reactor and the whole "Miranda Tate" alias was his idea.
Originally posted by Esau Cairn
You're forgetting that when Batman finally rips those tubes & Bane is slowly dying & in pain, Talia says (something like), "Goodbye, my love."Bane had nothing personal against Gotham, he was simply following Talia's orders.
There's all kinds of love. It could have just been the platonic love between close friends who went through Hell together in prison, the love between a spiritual brother and sister(the non incestuous kind), or other crap like that.
Bane admired Ra's al Ghul, and felt that Batman betrayed the entire League in the first movie by letting Ra's die. And if he's willing to nuke an entire city just to prove a point, that makes him more than just a mercenary or a henchman.
Originally posted by Dr Will Hatch
On the other hand, we can take an educated guess from Bane's comment of "Five, by my count" when he was talking to Dr. Pavel that he at least knows a little bit about nuclear physics, and based on some other comments near the beginning that he and Pavel knew each other in some fashion before the events of the movie. I think it's more likely that the fusion reactor and the whole "Miranda Tate" alias was his idea.
Yup ok...I can respect & see your valid point of view.
The Joker without a doubt is a better super villain! Watched the film last night with Bane and I found his voice to not suit his body , he was entertaining to me - however I did LOVE his coat! The Joker is above all the rest for me, he is intriguing and creative to say the least- Bane just wanted to blow sh*t up!