I get it now.
You think Loki is a superior mage to Zatanna whos is LITERALLy made out of magic. Then to top this you think Odin is casually going to dismiss the power of, Nabu, one of the LORDS OF ORDER.
Of course Zatanna would locate the items being Homo Magi she would feel them. (The Homo Magi opening if free, this time)
Zatanna's done impressive things. But she strikes me as being like Scarlet Witch; a plot device caster who is sorely outmatched when going up against a high-end powerful mage directly.
I'd be open to changing my mind through convincing proof though.
Also, is Nabu free game in a thread like this? Dr. Fate's been beaten up without invoking him in his entirety before. I think Nabu would be banned per the "No outside help" rule.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
I get it now.You think Loki is a superior mage to Zatanna whos is LITERALLy made out of magic. Then to top this you think Odin is casually going to dismiss the power of, Nabu, one of the LORDS OF ORDER.
Of course Zatanna would locate the items being Homo Magi she would feel them. (The Homo Magi opening if free, this time)
Why do I even bother with people who clearly can't read?
You said Zatanna is a far superior mage to Loki. I lol'ed as that's both laughable and inaccurate. Yet somehow to you that translated to me saying Loki was a superior mage to Zatanna? Although Loki beating Zatanna in a fight is a very reasonable stance to take.
Where did I say that? I don't understand where these assumptions are coming from. Is Nabu himself in this fight?
So Zatanna is going to know to look for, locate, and somehow devise a powerful enough counter spell faster than Odin who can simply port these Asgardian artifacts onto himself, many of which he himself is intimately familiar if not his creations, in his place of power?
I'm one more dumb post away from arguing that Odin will simply port the Helm of Nabu off of Kent's head.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
Zatanna is a game changer, unlike this:http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9248686/Defenders_v2_12_35.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9248688/Defenders_v2_12_36.jpg.html
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/9248689/Defenders_v2_12_37.jpg.html
Do you have the scans from Chaos War where Gaea was apparently retconned/revealed into being the mother of Creation and what not?
Even before that, she wasn't just the spirit of Earth in the human realm, Gaea exists as the embodiment of across all dimensions such as the demon realms etc. Perhaps even the heavenly ones as well.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusThat, plus Loki knows a fukton about most of the artifacts as well.
So Zatanna is going to know to look for, locate, and somehow devise a powerful enough counter spell faster than Odin who can simply port these Asgardian artifacts onto himself, many of which he himself is intimately familiar with if not his creations, in his place of power?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusIt says something like that.
Do you have the scans from Chaos War where Gaea was apparently retconned/revealed into being the mother of Creation and what not?
But instead of seeing it as a retcon, it makes sense that she's only talking about creating the Gods, as she shows intense pain when he starts eating Earth, as opposed to the universe. Although she could very well be talking about breeding all the Skyfather level Gods across the universe, and they in turned created the shit out of things. Meh, changes nothing really about her backstory.
Originally posted by Branlor Swift
It says something like that.
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/ChaosWar4018_zpsf67e1fd1.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/ChaosWar4019_zps8994eaa0.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/ChaosWar4020_zps50df682a.jpgBut instead of seeing it as a retcon, it makes sense that she's only talking about Earth, and the Gods of it, as she shows intense pain when he starts eating Earth, as opposed to the universe.
The planet Earth seems to be a true part of her flesh but based on what's going on, and what the word Chaos referred to (Along with the revelation/power up she gave Hercules) I think her position was elevated a bit there from the mother of Earth based Gods, to all Gods.
That's just my opinion.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusSee my edit.
The planet Earth seems to be a true part of her flesh but based on what's going on, and what the word Chaos referred to (Along with the revelation/power up she gave Hercules) I think her position was elevated a bit there.Whatever, to each his own.
It's a pyramid scheme essentially. She's the source of origin, they are the shapers.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Why do I even bother with people who clearly can't read?You said Zatanna is a far superior mage to Loki. I lol'ed as that's both laughable and inaccurate. Yet somehow to you that translated to me saying Loki was a superior mage to Zatanna? Although Loki beating Zatanna in a fight is a very reasonable stance to take.
Where did I say that? I don't understand where these assumptions are coming from. Is Nabu himself in this fight?
So Zatanna is going to know to look for, locate, and somehow devise a powerful enough counter spell faster than Odin who can simply port these Asgardian artifacts onto himself, many of which he himself is intimately familiar if not his creations, in his place of power?
I'm one more dumb post away from arguing that Odin will simply port the Helm of Nabu off of Kent's head.
People who can do more than just read can actually pick up on inferences within a text. It is a sign of having at least a high-school level of reading comprehension. There is no need for a list of verbatim quotes in that instance.
You think Odin wins with a whim, the DC canon says otherwise. You think the combination of Zatanna and Dr. Fate can do nothing to affect the magical artifacts in question while Odin is under fire, DC canon says otherwise.
If I were truly looking to be unreasonable I could say GA Superman Prime tanks every magical attack from Odin and rams Gugnir up the All-father's !@#.
I'm truly trying to be objective and once I was reminded that the artifacts were an option I thought this was a tough fight for either side.
Originally posted by ODG
Zatanna's done impressive things. But she strikes me as being like Scarlet Witch; a plot device caster who is sorely outmatched when going up against a high-end powerful mage directly.I'd be open to changing my mind through convincing proof though.
Also, is Nabu free game in a thread like this? Dr. Fate's been beaten up without invoking him in his entirety before. I think Nabu would be banned per the "No outside help" rule.
Nabu is joined with Dr. Fate, I think it is fair to have him in the fight.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklynIf Dr. Fate has fought without Nabu going all Lord of Order on his opponents, then that's the Dr. Fate you should probably use in this thread.
Nabu is joined with Dr. Fate, I think it is fair to have him in the fight.
Hood used Dormammu's cloak for a time that basically contained his power but Parker Robbins had his own feats and fights without Dormammu bursting out and going all Dark Lord on his enemies.
Same concept.
Granted, if you have proof that Nabu always comes out when Dr. Fate fights people, or that Dr. Fate never goes down without Nabu at least coming out and doing his thing, then it'd be fair to invoke him here. Otherwise, you're just conflating Dr. Fate and Nabu.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
People who can do more than just read can actually pick up on inferences within a text. It is a sign of having at least a high-school level of reading comprehension. There is no need for a list of verbatim quotes in that instance.You think Odin wins with a whim, the DC canon says otherwise. You think the combination of Zatanna and Dr. Fate can do nothing to affect the magical artifacts in question while Odin is under fire, DC canon says otherwise.
If I were truly looking to be unreasonable I could say GA Superman Prime tanks every magical attack from Odin and rams Gugnir up the All-father's !@#.
I'm truly trying to be objective and once I was reminded that the artifacts were an option I thought this was a tough fight for either side.
Oh I get it, you're telepathic. Tell me, what am I thinking now?
There you go again, telling me what I think based on no actual words of my own.
Again, do you think this team has one sided prep? They are unusually co-ordinated and informed while Odin and the Asgardians seem to be fumbling about in the dark not mounting any sort of defense. The simple fact of the matter is, the objects in question can simply be teleported onto Odin's person on a whim. It would be but an afterthought. For Fate and Zatanna to create a counter spell to prevent that would require some sort of preparation.
Otherwise you think they can sense, locate, identify, strategize, pool their resources and create a counter-spell specifically to bar Odin from his items of power faster than the All-Father's ability to teleport. That's not even taking into account the fact that Odin is himself a skilled magician backed by an incredibly well of power. He isn't just going to allow this to happen.
That's fine, you can think whatever you want. Although you were being unreasonable before, that shit would just be idiocy.
Originally posted by LordofBrooklyn
Before I post something and as a pre-emptive against being accues of lowballing, I have this question.Odin has clearly been depowered so what is a fair cutoff point in judging him for this fight?
Why must their be a cut off point? Odin like all characters has his highs and lows.
