RotS Sidious -vs- Count Dooku

Originally posted by Arhael

In book brothers got in each other's way and as result Opress made silly move. In movie brothers surrounded Kenobi without any problem, then were attacking from opposite sides without getting in each other's way and Opress lost arm in completely different circumstances.

I really don't see how a defensive fighter stuck in a small cave against 2 physical beasts and being unable to give ground is supposed to be an advantage to him. If anything he was disadvantaged in that situation.

Opress may have been outskilled by Jar Kai but then that's what Sidious is using against him too.

Originally posted by Arhael
Imho author had very limited info of the fight and wrote it before episode came out. To be fare no one would expect Kenobi to utilize kicks so effectively and doing so much acrobatics.

Makes me wonder how different the Sidious fight will be. Who knows perhaps Sidious won't use the Force and he'll just batter them both in Sabers like Obi-Wan did.

They're more or less on par with maybe Sidious having the slight advantage of being faster and younger.

Both seemed to be inferior to Yoda. I think Anakin beating Dooku is a result of a pile of unusual circumstances.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I think Anakin beating Dooku is a result of a pile of unusual circumstances.

CW Series has put an end to that idea. By ROTS Anakin was always going to overpower Count Dooku, unusual circumstances or not.

I don't really go by that show. But, to each their own.

Sidious can't use Force Attacks?

Just a lightsaber duel?

Hmm..

this should be close

Dooku will zoon realize than when zidiouz tell him than he could defeat him in a light zaber combat it'z he could, be he would not, and he won't becauze thiz iz juzt a zidiouz flattery....

Sidious wins 10 / 10 via kinetic power.

He needn't kinetic power.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Sidious wins 10 / 10 via kinetic power.

Ah yes, the Kinetic Power, apparently being Dooku's MAJOR Weakness. Yet surprisingly it never stopped him out sparring Mace Windu or Savage Opress or General Grievous, or fending off Yoda's assault for a while, or fending off Skywalker and Kenobi combined twice.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Ah yes, the Kinetic Power, apparently being Dooku's MAJOR Weakness. Yet surprisingly it never stopped him out sparring Mace Windu or Savage Opress or General Grievous, or fending off Yoda's assault for a while, or fending off Skywalker and Kenobi combined twice.

Yoda (also ataru user) does not use offensive kinetic power with his little shoto blade. Obi-Wan and Grievous are not using Juyo or Djem-So as well. Anakin always gave a good fight to him, defeated him in TCW and RotS. If Mace uses his vaapad amplification, yeah it will exhaust Dooku eventually. Savage also one-shotted him before his prime.

Juyo / Vaapad & Djem-So provides the necessary kinetic power. Not shi-cho, ataru, soresu, makashi etc.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Yoda (also ataru user) does not use offensive kinetic power with his little shoto blade.

Ataro has a powerful offensive, so of course the Most Powerful Jedi wielding it will have plenty of Kinetic power.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Obi-Wan and Grievous are not using Juyo or Djem-So as well.

Doesn't matter. We're talking about Kinetic power, which Grievous clearly has in spades. Although I'm sure Grievous does actually employ the primary 6 forms in his technique.

Kenobi's modest amount of kinetic power only adds to Skywalker's when they are attacking Dooku together.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Anakin always gave a good fight to him,

That's because Anakin's a powerhouse.

Originally posted by Marco1907
defeated him in TCW and RotS.

He floored him in TCW once via a kick. Dooku's kicks on Ventress and Skywalker have always been far more lethal.

The ROTS Novel makes it clear the reason Skywalker defeated Dooku is because he was simply too powerful for him. It had nothing to do with Djem So, which Dooku handled just fine once he had Anakin one on one and taunted him into feeling fear so he couldn't use his entire wealth of power. I would give the exact quotes if I had the novel on me.

Originally posted by Marco1907
If Mace uses his vaapad amplification, yeah it will exhaust Dooku eventually. Savage also one-shotted him before his prime.

That's your own theory. He's sparred Vapaad Windu in the past and bested him. Dark Rendezvous also suggests Dooku and Windu are rivals in a Saber fight.

Dooku handled Savage's Kintetic Power with Ease in their 1 v 1.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Juyo / Vaapad & Djem-So provides the necessary kinetic power. Not shi-cho, ataru, soresu, makashi etc.

And yet Dooku's casually out fenced Sora Bulq who was using Vapaad, and it's in fact Djem So that has the Weakness to Dooku's Mobility. That's in fact the ONLY Weakness mentioned in the ROTS Novel.

You can't just make up your own theories like that of this supposed "MAJOR Weakness" Dooku has, when the only time it was mentioned in canon, it was very context specific (fighting off 2 opponents), and the word "Weakness" was never even used, just because you don't like the idea of Skywalker being too Powerful for Count Dooku.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Ataro has a powerful offensive, so of course the Most Powerful Jedi wielding it will have plenty of Kinetic power.

Regardless, as of the thread Dooku has a chance to win. But majority obviously goes to Sidious.

Sidious, easily.

Originally posted by Arhael

Regardless, as of the thread Dooku has a chance to win. But majority obviously goes to Sidious.

Ahh I actually think he can't win in direct Saber combat. And that his best shot at Sidious (or Windu) in Sabers would be to go for a stalemate. Just keep giving ground and fending them off, like Kenobi does with Skywalker, until he can either gain some sort of tactical advantage or just find an opportunity to escape.

Makashi's a great form to fend off Powerful opponents with Imo, despite this rumor going around that it's weak against strong opponents.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Ahh I actually think he can't win in direct Saber combat. And that his best shot at Sidious (or Windu) in Sabers would be to go for a stalemate. Just keep giving ground and fending them off, like Kenobi does with Skywalker, until he can either gain some sort of tactical advantage or just find an opportunity to escape.

Makashi's a great form to fend off Powerful opponents with Imo, despite this rumor going around that it's weak against strong opponents.

Originally posted by Arhael
Why not? Considering his feats of fighting Anakin and Kenobi, fighting Yoda on even terms and outright being stated to be on parr with Windu surely he must have at least tiny chance of winning Sidious in sabers.

Maybe, I just think he'd be silly to try, because he'd more than likely lose. And that his best bet would just be to fend him off, looking for either a tactical advantage or a way to escape, or both.

Sidious (and Windu) are just much stronger than Dooku whose way past his physical prime Imo.

Although I do seem to remember when Talzin possessed Dooku, Sidious says to her something like "You clearly don't have Dooku's Saber skills", just before he beats her.

I think Kenobi and Skywalker make a poor duo when tackling one opponent. They seem to do much better on their own.

Dooku has no chance to win. Not even a tiny one because of the reason I've mentioned before.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER

And yet Dooku's casually out fenced Sora Bulq who was using Vapaad,

1- Bulq is not strong like the people I've mentioned
2- Dooku didn't even defeat Bulq via sabers iirc, he disarmed his shoto saber, then he used force lightning to defeat him.

Originally posted by Marco1907
Dooku has no chance to win. Not even a tiny one because of the reason I've mentioned before.

Your reasons are not valid as I've thoroughly addressed.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Your reasons are not valid as I've thoroughly addressed.

You say Anakin is powerhouse yet same Anakin failed to defeat Obi-Wan, if you believe Anakin's physical strength is abnormal, then he should've defeat Obi-Wan just as he did to Dooku. However Obi-Wan had no difficulty with Anakin's kinetic power.