Doesn't imperio require concentration on the part of the caster to administrate the cursed? Is Voldemort really expected to manage thousands of puppets simultaneously? Is there anything--anything at all in HP to suggest Voldemort can control (I'm not talking keeping them in thrall, I mean moving them around in combat) a dozen wizards at once, let alone the entire population?
Originally posted by Lestov16
That's your claim? OK. Burden on you to prove it.
For example: Person A: "There's a ghost in the room."
Person B: "No there isn't."
A: "Yes there is."
B: "What proof do you have?"
A: "Well you can't prove it isn't there."
B: "Why would I need to disprove something that hasn't been proven?"
Originally posted by Omega Vision
No it isn't. Negative claims do not require proof if the positive claim they are made in response to is not first substantiated.For example: Person A: "There's a ghost in the room."
Person B: "No there isn't."
A: "Yes there is."
B: "What proof do you have?"
A: "Well you can't prove it isn't there."
B: "Why would I need to disprove something that hasn't been proven?"
Watch out for that "limits fallacy", pal.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
No it isn't. Negative claims do not require proof if the positive claim they are made in response to is not first substantiated.For example: Person A: "There's a ghost in the room."
Person B: "No there isn't."
A: "Yes there is."
B: "What proof do you have?"
A: "Well you can't prove it isn't there."
B: "Why would I need to disprove something that hasn't been proven?"
That is not what is happening, actually.
The claim is a positive one: "The bombs seen in the movie can destroy the shield*." Quanchi and Lestov have been waiting patiently for that claim to be substantiated.
*Shields which were only seen being taken down by anti-shield magic.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Didn't DDD invent that tripe?
There was obviously a logical response and a name for an informal fallacy that incorrectly or baselessly invokes a limit.
Scoff all you want but someone had to be the first to label the "no-limits fallacy" and I am the first to use the label "limits fallacy". Eventually, it will spread across the versus and debate forums, everywhere. 🙂
Originally posted by dadudemon
That is not what is happening, actually.The claim is a positive one: "The bombs seen in the movie can destroy the shield*." Quanchi and Lestov have been waiting patiently for that claim to be substantiated.
*Shields which were only seen being taken down by anti-shield magic.
There was obviously a logical response and a name for an informal fallacy that incorrectly or baselessly invokes a limit.
Scoff all you want but someone had to be the first to label the "no-limits fallacy" and I am the first to use the label "limits fallacy". Eventually, it will spread across the versus and debate forums, everywhere. 🙂
Look, DDD, the limits fallacy is silly because it's overly charitable and opens the doors to all kinds of ridiculous arguments. If Captain America had never punched adamantium, you could invoke the limits fallacy to suggest that there's no proof he can't punch a hole in it. The no-limits fallacy has its own problems, but we should err on the side of caution, and the no-limits fallacy keeps debates from becoming too ridiculous by nipping any talk of Captain America punching through adamantium in the bud.
Originally posted by dadudemon
The claim is a positive one: "The bombs seen in the movie can destroy the shield*." Quanchi and Lestov have been waiting patiently for that claim to be substantiated.
I already proved the mega-shield would hold
Originally posted by Lestov16
Prove the military will hit the wizards in an airstrike when they have a 469 mile radius to teleport around.Also, you think Copperhead missiles are going to do shit against the mega shield, when every wizard in the series in powering it? 😆 GTFO with that nonsense.
Look at what the shield blocks at 4:13-4:29. That is a [b]lot of bolts
. What are those bolt's capable of?Look right at 6:10-6:21, and building-destroying blasts generated. And note that was from 3 wizards and wasn't the full impact that the mega-shield took in the prior scene, when it was attacked by hundreds of bolts (Vold's probably was equal to a MOAB or more itself considering how strong the shield was).
Also that shield was only powered by a few people, unlike the one in this thread, which is strengthened by every wizard in the series including Vold and Dumbledore. Copperheads ain't doin shit. [/B]
Originally posted by Lestov16
how long did you practice that, tubby? You must be so exhausted.And is that Neville Longbottom? No, I didn't think so.
2 Weeks. I was.
He's fat too, you implied that fat people can only do back flips while under a spell. Accept that you made a silly claim with some dignity.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
You clearly didn't read the latest posts.
Oh, I did. You clearly didn't read the past posts.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The claim that Lestov was calling for substantiation for was indeed a negative claim. This was concerning the purported ability of imperio to amp those controlled by it beyond their normal abilities. Lestov was asking for proof that it couldn't.
Lestov isn't the brightest: he is not aware of how to reword a very good point so the petty rebuttals can thusly be demonstrated or avoided. Basically, I'm saying that hiding behind Lestov's inability to confound the competition (by avoiding negative wordings of legitimate points) is not going to fly and I avoided that entire logical line of reasoning. I was hoping you, with that decent brain, would be past invoking Lestov's ignorance of nuanced philosophical debate (because that is all it is...it is not even a substantive philosophical method as most negative arguments can be quickly turned into positive statements) and instead skip this portion of the conversation and head right for the meat of the discussion.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
If Captain America had never punched adamantium, you could invoke the limits fallacy to suggest that there's no proof he can't punch a hole in it.
Nope, that is not how it works and you clearly do not understand it. That last statement is hyperbole and you clearly do understand it but are using a horrible example to not prove your point at all but bait me into a discussion about it which you knew would work. You're bored, again. How dare you.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
The no-limits fallacy has its own problems, but we should err on the side of caution, and the no-limits fallacy keeps debates from becoming too ridiculous by nipping any talk of Captain America punching through adamantium in the bud.
I can reword your statements here and still be just as correct. Watch:
"The limits fallacy has its own problems, but we should err on the side of caution, and the limits fallacy keeps debates from becoming too ridiculous by nipping any talk of 'Captain America's shield getting punched through by magical spells' in the bud."
Also, it is a Vibranium-adamantium alloy, not just adamantium. Jeez. Get it right. 😛
Anyway, saying that magical spells can punch through Cap's shield just because they are magical would be a limits fallacy. One claiming that they would work imposes and arbitrary limitation of having a magical weakness. (Ignore the fact that Cap's shield actually is resistant to magic just for the sake of the point.)
When people start baselessly and arbitrarily imposing limits on things, things get out of control and stupid. I could understand if they were saying that a massive asteroid colliding with the shield would break it, but they are not: they are talking about bombs, which seem very much within the same energetic realm of the blasty-magic attacks the Death Eaters were throwing at the shield, being able to break the shield.
Also, why didn't the wizards keep throwing up more and more shields? Hmm? They could have layered that shit and Voldy would have never gotten inside.
They didn't do that because the plot required only one shield be put up.
Edit - I see that you edited your post. Too bad: I'm sticking to the original version. Mwhhahaahahahaha!
Originally posted by Robtard
2 Weeks. I was.He's fat too, you implied that fat people can only do back flips while under a spell. Accept that you made a silly claim with some dignity.
That fat man was sporting some serious muscle under that fat. His calves were huge. He's obviously very athletic with plenty of muscle to spare....he is massively a statistical outlier.
I do not sport nearly the bodyfat he does and I do plenty of agility training and I cannot do a backflip. That might be due to how much of a stationary turd I am...but still...you proved nothing with that video.
In order for you to have proven your point, you needed to find a middle-aged, out of shape, low-muscle mass toting, British man, performing a backflip. That is the conditions of the imperio curse's amping effects...