Dawn of Time Anti-Monitor runs the gauntlet...

@Mr Master

I had to check the actual comic to be certain, but the LT himself says:
"By the universal constant! Is Korvacs power so vast that he can shield his world from my righteous retribution? I have meted out my ultimate punishment, yet Korvac stands unrepentant! I can do no more! I shall have to give up the universe for lost!"

See, even your claim that Korvac didnt know he was under attack from the LT is a lie as the LT himself believes that Korvac shielded Earth from his wrath...

Now Mr Master, I hope you arent intentionally lying just to try and win an argument...

As PIS'y as it was, the LT failed against Korvac and had to flee...

It happened to the LT and was canon (as pertains to the LT)...

Thats all she wrote...

💃

Here is the scan btw...even though it isnt at a good resolution:

Originally posted by zopzop

@ Mr Master
I sorta agree with LoM on this one my friend.

I just chalk it up to PIS or low showings.

Originally posted by zopzop

But I do agree with you that some outside force (Death) saved Korvac.
Remember that scan I posted a while back showing Death's visage in Korvac's shadow?

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Mr Master

As PIS'y as they were, the Tribunal failed at his goal in both senario's...

He had a specific agenda that he wanted to achieve and both
characters stopped him; yes it was definitely PIS, but the showings
were canon to the LT and he lost...

PIS of the highest order? Most definitely...

Originally posted by Mr Master

So Reed never battled the LT and won.

That's what I wanted yall to understand.

So Korvac never battled the LT and won.

That's what I wanted yall to understand.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Mr Master

I had to check the actual comic to be certain, but the LT [b]himself says:
"By the universal constant! Is Korvacs power so vast that he can shield his world from my righteous retribution? I have meted out my ultimate punishment, yet Korvac stands unrepentant! I can do no more! I shall have to give up the universe for lost!"

See, even your claim that Korvac didnt know he was under attack from the LT is a lie as the LT himself believes that Korvac shielded Earth from his wrath...

Now Mr Master, I hope you arent intentionally lying just to try and win an argument...

As PIS'y as it was, the LT failed against Korvac and had to flee...

It happened to the LT and was canon (as pertains to the LT)...

Thats all she wrote...

💃 [/B]

Death had nothing to do with Korvac surviving the LT's wrath; Korvac did...

See the above...

^^ umm

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
@Mr Master

I had to check the actual comic to be certain, but the LT himself says:
"By the universal constant! Is Korvacs power so vast that he can
shield his world from my righteous retribution? I have meted out
my ultimate punishment, yet Korvac stands unrepentant! I can do
no more! I shall have to give up the universe for lost!"

[b]See, even your claim that Korvac didnt know he was under
attack from the LT is a lie as the LT himself believes that
Korvac shielded Earth from his wrath...

Now Mr Master,
I hope you arent intentionally [b]lying just to try and win an argument[/b]...

As PIS'y as it was, the LT failed against Korvac and had to flee...
It happened to the LT and was canon (as pertains to the LT)...

Thats all she wrote...
[/B]

But before that I have a warning for ya.

I'll forgive ya once for accusing me of something I detest. (lies)

Don't do it again, and know what you're talking about before vomiting diarrhea.

I hate liars, trolls, or socks to support the parent/prime account.

Now, I never said the LT didn't know about Korvac,

I said Korvac DID NOT KNOW about the LT.

Now, go back to the book,
you'll realize the LT thought that,
but the writer shows us in the next page/panel,
it's actually Miss D that's doing something behind the scenes.

"The Eons-Old Stalemate between Eternity and Me has Ended
By My machinations, the Universe shall be mine"

"Death, Korvac's unbidden ally ... Death, Korvac's unwanted master"

------------------------------------------

Korvac and his love are puppets in Death's domain now, as he was in life.

--------------------------------------

Or .. you could post a non-existent page where Korvac braces for LT's attack.

Or how about ... Korvac even knowing the LT was ever there?

Good luck. 🙂

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Death had nothing to do with Korvac surviving the LT's wrath; Korvac did...

See the above...

The scan I posted of Death's grinning visage lurking in Korvac's shadow should seal the deal.

EDIT -
There he/she/it is right there, look closely and you'll see it :

Well you guys are speculating that Death had something to do with Korvac withstanding the LT's wrath; yes, she was clearly doing stuff behind the scenes, but you cant point to anything that clearly indicates that she was the one protecting him...

On the other hand, we have the LT clearly being in awe of Korvacs ability to protect himself from his wrath; this isnt speculation...the LT is speaking plainly about Michael Korvac.

@Mr Master

There is no diarrhea in my words; you made up that stuff about Korvac not knowing the LT was there as there is nothing to support that stance...

Especially when you have the LT himself being in awe of Korvacs "vast" power and ability to protect himself...

So yeah, you made that part up...which is a lie by definition.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

Well you guys are speculating that Death had something to do
with Korvac withstanding the LT's wrath; yes, she was clearly doing
stuff behind the scenes, but you cant point to anything that clearly
indicates that she was the one protecting him...

On the other hand, we have the LT clearly being in awe of Korvacs
ability to protect himself from his wrath; this isnt speculation...the
LT is speaking plainly about Michael Korvac.

That is awe-inspiring.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

@Mr Master

There is no diarrhea in my words; you made up that stuff about
Korvac not knowing the LT was there as there is nothing to support
that stance...

Especially when you have the LT himself being in awe of Korvacs
"vast" power and ability to protect himself...

Oh no? You mean, the LT made the Sun go Nova and Korvac never noticed,
yet managed to what? Subconsciously protect himself?

Get this garbage out of here homie.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

So yeah, you made that part up...which is a lie by definition.

Real simple. 🙂

i didnt read all that but LT even in what ifs is the same LT meaning whatever LT does or happens to it is canon? (question directed at anyone that can answer it).

Originally posted by Lord Feron

i didnt read all that but LT even in what ifs is the same LT meaning
whatever LT does or happens to it is canon? (question directed at
anyone that can answer it).

Originally posted by Mr Master
OMG! Death shielded him from the Nova blast,
or He tanked a Sun going Nova.

That is awe-inspiring.

I challenge you to produce a single depiction or statement from Korvac,
acknowledging he either braced himself for the LT's attack,
or recognizing he shunted LT's attack.

Oh no? You mean, the LT made the Sun go Nova and Korvac never noticed,
yet managed to what? Subconsciously protect himself?

Get this garbage out of here homie.

You Lie about me one more time and I'll report you then ignore you for life.

Real simple. 🙂

If you want to report me, go right ahead...my stance wont change one bit...and your report wont go anywhere as my position is rock solid.

The same goes for you ignoring me; I wont lose any sleep...

The point remains; the LT himself believes that Korvac shielded himself...

That point is indisputable...

There really isnt anymore to be said pertaining to this issue as it would be speculation or falsehood...

The part about death doing the protecting is just speculation. Did you even mention Oblivion? Is death thus more powerful then LT? If death is stronger then LT then why didnt Death own Thanos when he had the IG.

Originally posted by Galan007
AM steamrolls through 1-6. Stops cold at 7.

This.

Originally posted by ThereIsHope
The part about death doing the protecting is just speculation.
Is death thus more powerful then LT?

That's what's funny cause yall seem to overlook that.

Even if Korvac had done it himself, it still would say absolutely Nothing,
about Korvac's power next to the LT's,
just like it says nothing about Death's power next to the LT.

Now, had the LT shot a force bolt from his hand like he can
and either Death or Korvac block/survive that,
then we have something to really discuss with serious WTF all over it.

But it was no big deal what happened.

The Writer was smart to use that asinine move by the LT,
allowing plot to follow its course and have Korvac erase reality with the UN.

Well, at-least he has the LT disconnect that Korvac's entire Universe from the Multiverse.

Yea, he can that, but decides to use a freakin star as a weapon. 😐

... Silly 1982 What IF ...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

If you want to report me, go right ahead...my stance wont change
one bit...and your report wont go anywhere as my position is rock solid.
The same goes for you ignoring me; I wont lose any sleep...

The point remains; the LT himself believes that Korvac shielded himself...

That point is indisputable...

There really isnt anymore to be said pertaining to this issue as it
would be speculation or falsehood...

Again, we already established FAR before you joined This Forum,
that the LT knew about Korvac, was aware of Korvac, and attacked
Korvac INDIRECTLY!

On the Otherhand .. the argument HERE is:

Let me know when you produce that page
where Korvac acknowledged the LT was ever there,
or where Korvac braced himself for LT's retarded attack (making a sun go nova)
or where Korvac is shown shielding the Earth from the Nova blast,
or where Korvac ever attacked the LT,
or how about LT and Korvac ever confronting each other and Korvac is aware.

Heck, my son,
Korvac never even realized his Earth had just survived a Sun going Nova,
he was relishing in his power on land, OBLIVIOUS to what just happened!

Anyway, Korvac was able to one shot kill and absorb the In-Betweener,
who had escaped to his own disconnected Dimension:

Interesting ... after the Earth survives via a mysterious shield,
Korvac doesn't attack the LT who's at the center of the Galaxy.

In fact, the illustration and narration points to Korvac NEVER knew what happened!

-------------------------------------------

Korvac found out there were so called "Galactic powers" assembled against him,
but he had NO idea who they were.

He took them on as they warped into his vicinity,
and he was able to locate the In-Betweener because the Stranger
tricked IB into giving it away.

Korvac NEVER knew the LT was there.

Korvac never even knew he had just survived the LT's judgement.

-------------------------------------------

Meh .. back in Mar. 2007 ... I still felt the same about this subject:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t446630.html

-------------------------------------------

Anyway, for the future, if you wanna continue to have cool debates we can do that,
but be respectful, and never accuse me of lying, like ever again.

I joined KMC nearly 7 Years ago, and in my 17,000 + posts there isn't a single intentional lie.

Remember that dogs ... and any true "senior" member can attest to that.

I can be wrong, and I have acknowledged it when I have been,
but never under the blanket of deliberate fabrications or half-truths.

Just sayin, be careful, disrespecting true debaters around here can give rise to a crusade of ignore buttons that will make you feel kinda lonely.

Now, time to burn. stoned

Thats a bullcrap. Its never stated on panal that Death ever did anything. Its all in your head.

@Mr Master

Length of time here has absloutely no meaning as pertains this topic as someone who's been here 10000 years can still be wrong; at the same time, someone who's only been here 10 minutes can be right...

As pertains "true debaters," that includes anyone thats capable of forming a rational argument...

So no, you and all your scans makes your arguments no better than anyone elses...

As pertains this issue, you continue to speculate; I have the LT's words on the other hand...

Once again, the LT believed that Korvac shielded the Earth from his judgement...

Thats far more solid evidence than "I think Death did it."

As pertains it not being impressive, well the LT decided to get the hell out of there didnt he?

After Korvac survived his wrath, he told the other cosmics "LoL!!" and ran off with his tail between his legs...

Originally posted by ThereIsHope
Korvac fought LT in a WHAT IF comic. The LT has an M body. or else your saying tha the LT failed?

The M-BODY did not exist for the LT in the beginning. He was THE LT in every appearance. Now he has an M-body unless I am Mistaken. The point is he lost to Korvac, and to Reed Richards in an alternate universe.

i agree lt uses m-bodies, and imo an m-body may or may not manifest the full power of whichever entity is houses. a varying degree of power has always been a simple and logical way to explain the differences (or inconsistent natures) of the power demonstrated by some abstracts in different issues. a logical way to explain away pis imo. it also explains away any paradoxes that arise from the existence of m-bodies existing at the same time.

not sure he lost to korvac as you suggest though--rather he failed in an attempt to destroy him outright (as he was clearly intending to do). he did succeed in sealing him off, but the fact that he was unable to snap his fingers and make him disappear is some testament to korvac's power--especially in an era where cosmics were defined differently than they are now. without direct conflict though, can't really go out on a limb and say he 'beat' lt, though it seems reasonable to say korvac was sufficiently powerful to have survived his wrath (perhaps unknowlingly)--such as it was. NOT a feat to be taken lightly at all imo.

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree lt uses m-bodies, and imo an m-body may or may not manifest the full power of whichever entity is houses. a varying degree of power has always been a simple and logical way to explain the differences (or inconsistent natures) of the power demonstrated by some abstracts in different issues. a logical way to explain away pis imo. it also explains away any paradoxes that arise from the existence of m-bodies existing at the same time.

not sure he lost to korvac as you suggest though--rather he failed in an attempt to destroy him outright (as he was clearly intending to do). he did succeed in sealing him off, but the fact that he was unable to snap his fingers and make him disappear is some testament to korvac's power--especially in an era where cosmics were defined differently than they are now. without direct conflict though, can't really go out on a limb and say he 'beat' lt, though it seems reasonable to say korvac was sufficiently powerful to have survived his wrath (perhaps unknowlingly)--such as it was. NOT a feat to be taken lightly at all imo.

Heralds have survived worst than that.

I also find it hillarious that he wasn't scared of the LT or the other cosmics but panicked at the sight of an alien armada 😆

^^ 😆 ... to be fair though ...

Korvac Never even knew the LT was ever there,
or, that the LT tried to fry his planet.
Korvac was completely oblivious to what happened.

There's also the fact, that there's no proof of any kind even alluding
to M-body's manifesting in varying amounts of power. (on panel or otherwise)

We do have the Marvel sponsored Marvunapp site telling us in plain english:

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/anthropo.htm

powers & abilities:

"Like all natives of his realm (Fractals that form M-bodies)
He (Anthro/M-body) can assume a physical form for non-physical or abstract beings.
These forms have access to the full power of the original being"

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

@Mr Master

Length of time here has absloutely no meaning as pertains this
topic as someone who's been here 10000 years can still be wrong;
at the same time, someone who's only been here 10 minutes can
be right...

I never said anything about "length of time" at KMC making one right all (or any) the time.

In FACT,
I clearly pointed out how I CAN be WRONG! But I NEVER have LIED!!!

WTF are you talking about kid?

I was referring to my untainted Reputation at kmc concerning the
length of time I've been here, for your newby self to pop up and try
to call me a liar.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

As pertains "true debaters,"
that includes anyone thats capable of forming a rational argument...

So no, you and all your scans makes your arguments no better than anyone elses...

"True debater" to me/us, is not only a "rational argument" (plenty of those to go around)
It's actually proving many times over you Know wft you're talking about,
with concrete proof. (facts with on panel depictions backed by
handbooks (if possible) doesn't need an argument behind it to give it substance)
The "rational" theory/idea/opinion part of a post should for meaning/understanding to something that's not clear cut.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

As pertains this issue, you continue to speculate;
I have the LT's words on the other hand...

Once again, the LT believed that Korvac shielded the Earth from his judgement...

Thats far more solid evidence than "I think Death did it."

Once again, the LT "believed that Korvac shielded the Earth from his judgement"

And Yet ...
Korvac never acknowledged he had just protected the Earth from the LT,
Korvac never acknowledged he had just protected the Earth from a Sun going Nova,
Korvac never attacked the LT, like he did everyone else even IB who was in ANOTHER Dimension,
yet,
somehow decided not to attack the LT who from the center of the Galaxy,
just tried to incinerate him & his planet? 😆

Wait ... LOL!

Korvac attacked Everyone that tried anything against him,
why not the LT, oh, and Order and Chaos who survived as well?

Because Korvac NEVER knew the LT, Chaos & Order were ever there.

Because Order & Chaos never attacked Korvac so they didn't register.

Because the LT attacked from the center of the Galaxy, unnoticed,
while Death shielded the Earth from that Sun going Nova,
and Korvac NEVER knew what agenda-minded miss Death did for him,
heck, according to art and narration,
we can say Korvac NEVER even knew what just happened.

This is Why we know he didn't actively protect Earth form the Nova blast.

Besides the fact that the Writer made it clear: (next page/panel AFTER the Nova blast)

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15097025_D1.jpg]

Further confirmation Death is manipulating this comedy:

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15097026_D2.jpg]

[img=http://s4d3.turboimagehost.com/t/15097027_D3.jpg]

See there homie,
Korvac along with the only other powerful victims of the UN,
chilling in Death's realm, and your mighty LT scaring Korvac is a mere puppet.

Good to see the horseshit of that What IF reconciled with that depiction.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder

As pertains it not being impressive,
well the LT decided to get the hell out of there didnt he?

After Korvac survived his wrath, he told the other cosmics "LoL!!"
and ran off with his tail between his legs...

So, yea, I'm not impressed like at all.

Oh and yes, the LT decided to get out of there after doing ...

... oh right, practically Nothing.

Well, that's not true,
the LT did rip Korvac's entire Universe form the Multiverse,
but decided to use a single puny Sun as a weapon instead of his own power. 😐

Originally posted by zopzop
Leo, you realize though that the LT's "ultimate" punishment was making a star go nova?

Heralds have survived worst than that.

I also find it hilarious that he wasn't scared of the LT or the other cosmics but panicked at the sight of an alien armada 😆

and you need to recall that when the issue was written, a supernova was pretty 'scientific' and was associated with a tremendous amount of power. lt was also viewed somewhat differently, and depictions of cosmic battles and events were also somewhat different. if you lose track of the era in which the events occurred, you lose a lot of referential info that goes a lonngggg way toward clarifying context that may not be valid any longer.

compared the first star wars movie with any current major sci-fi flick. comics need to be viewed through a similar lens, imo.

as far as m-bodies--there is likewise no proof whatsoever (aside from one site which says they HAVE access to their full power, which of course is precisely what i said....i simply added that while they CAN have full access, they do not NEED full access....) that every m-body possesses the complete power of an abstract every time. assuming they do leads to cries of pis to explain away certain events and leads to paradoxes where more than one m-body exists at a time--and since time means little to some of these beings, that can be a definite problem to explain away.

anywho, not the place, and an old topic of debate. people are more than welcome as always to choose whichever opinion they prefer.