Dawn of Time Anti-Monitor runs the gauntlet...

Originally posted by leonidas
and you need to recall that when the issue was written, a supernova was pretty 'scientific' and was associated with a tremendous amount of power. lt was also viewed somewhat differently, and depictions of cosmic battles and events were also somewhat different. if you lose track of the era in which the events occurred, you lose a lot of referential info that goes a lonngggg way toward clarifying context that may not be valid any longer.

compared the first star wars movie with any current major sci-fi flick. comics need to be viewed through a similar lens, imo.

In 1988 Nova blew up a star point blank and everyone was like "woah, we better get out of this black hole because that star blowing up did shit but create a black hole"

and in an early appearance by mephisto surfer actually overpowered him. and black holes STILL receive respect from time to time.

i'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not. shrug

in any event, my point was comics, like all media (see what the kids sections of bookstores look like today as opposed to 1982) have undergone change. clearly they are more subject to close scrutiny, writers and artists are far more accessible to their audience and are, as a result, held more closely accountable for their work. imo, i think these kinds of things need to be taken into account sometimes in order to fully grasp the context surrounding older feats and events to better gauge what was really intended. in some cases, (this one for instance, a lot but not all--of pre-crisis dc) i just think they need to be viewed relative to their real life eras. but again, maybe that's just me.

Originally posted by leonidas
and in an early appearance by mephisto surfer actually overpowered him. and black holes STILL receive respect from time to time.

i'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or not. shrug

in any event, my point was comics, like all media (see what the kids sections of bookstores look like today as opposed to 1982) have undergone change. clearly they are more subject to close scrutiny, writers and artists are far more accessible to their audience and are, as a result, held more closely accountable for their work. imo, i think these kinds of things need to be taken into account sometimes in order to fully grasp the context surrounding older feats and events to better gauge what was really intended. in some cases, (this one for instance, a lot but not all--of pre-crisis dc) i just think they need to be viewed relative to their real life eras. but again, maybe that's just me.

As for black holes I don't think it's a more of a time but how the writer view Black holes. It goes from being capable of hurting Galactus/Thanos etc to being a complete joke.

Black holes are unreliable when trying to gauge power-levels to say the least.

Black holes are black holes. The writer should use his brain.

Originally posted by leonidas
sounds mostly right to me, but i wonder about 7. i think both companies have shown SOME inclination toward equating spectre and lt. maybe not a direct correlation, but....both have been kinda/sorta depicted as being the 'voices' of the ones above all. clearly they have some differences as well, along with some inconsistent showings, but i'm speaking in a more general sense. imo, it's pretty easy to envision LT playing the spectre's role in coie. if we go by that particular assumption, i'm not so sure i agree that he stops cold there. lt has also been given a chance to evolve some as a character, which colours our impressions, and the term 'cosmic' has taken on new depths and new meanings. i think it's a lot closer if we compare that era's lt with coie am.

Originally posted by zopzop
Stop at the Galactus Engine (which I believe is MORE powerful than BCA Galactus).

Originally posted by Galan007

Neither were that great, imo. BCA Galactus had a LOT of potential, but he was ultimately killed by nullifying his universe-- a feat well within AM's ability. And toward the end of the Thanos Imperative, 616 Galactus was able to hold off the GE by himself for a period of time... So I don't think it was really that powerful either-- that is to say: I don't see it enduring an anti-matter wave. /shrug

But the Galactus Engine was a whole other story. It withstood and overpowered the combined might of a Host of Celestials (at least 8 of them with Arishem there), Teneberous and Aegis, and Galactus.

It appeared they actually gave up and either ran away or had their M-Bodies destroyed (like Aegis' was).

Galactus was about finished too. It had him in it's tendrils until Mistress Death saved the day.

All that power AND unkillable except by the supreme Death abstract seals the deal.

Well to get back on topic, I am shocked at the breakdown voting wise...

3 think the 2000ft Destroyer stops him (which is garbage until someone provides a compelling argument to why this is)...

3 think BCA Galactus stops him (which is within reason given what BCA Galactus could potentially do)...

3 think the LT could stop him (which is, again, reasonable given what a nonjobbing LT should be capable of)...

3 think he actually clears the gauntlet (I really want to know the thinking behind how he defeats Classic Owen as I cant see him getting past 9)...

2 think Owen stops him (which I can see as well; provided DoT AM even gets this far)...

1 thinks that Zero Hour Parallax beats him (which is pushing it IMHO; I'd love to hear the argument as to how Hal beats the AM)...

1 thinks Adult Franklin Richards beats him (which just doesnt seem possible to me given how powerful the AM was at the Dawn of Time; I'd love to hear how Franklin wins this fight)...

Anyone else want to support their respective votes with a rational argument?

Originally posted by zopzop
Well BCA Galactus was nothing but a sponge absorbing matter and energy. Unable to move or think. So he's a joke.

But the Galactus Engine was a whole other story. It withstood and overpowered the combined might of a Host of Celestials (at least 8 of them with Arishem there), Teneberous and Aegis, and Galactus.

It appeared they actually gave up and either ran away or had their M-Bodies destroyed (like Aegis' was).

Galactus was about finished too. It had him in it's tendrils until Mistress Death saved the day.

All that power AND unkillable except by the supreme Death abstract seals the deal.

Clears it.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Clears it.

How does he beat Classic Owen?

Originally posted by leonidas
in any event, my point was comics, like all media (see what the kids sections of bookstores look like today as opposed to 1982) have undergone change. clearly they are more subject to close scrutiny, writers and artists are far more accessible to their audience and are, as a result, held more closely accountable for their work. imo, i think these kinds of things need to be taken into account sometimes in order to fully grasp the context surrounding older feats and events to better gauge what was really intended. in some cases, (this one for instance, a lot but not all--of pre-crisis dc) i just think they need to be viewed relative to their real life eras. but again, maybe that's just me.

Really? Because I feel like a lot of writers still have free reign and the only thing that got killed was the exaggerated explanations and constant exposition.

The same amount of inconsistency still applies and in some cases I'd say it's gotten even worse.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Well to get back on topic, I am shocked at the breakdown voting wise...

3 think the 2000ft Destroyer stops him (which is garbage until someone provides a compelling argument to why this is)...

3 think BCA Galactus stops him (which is within reason given what BCA Galactus could potentially do)...

3 think the LT could stop him (which is, again, reasonable given what a nonjobbing LT should be capable of)...

3 think he actually clears the gauntlet (I really want to know the thinking behind how he defeats Classic Owen as I cant see him getting past 9)...

2 think Owen stops him (which I can see as well; provided DoT AM even gets this far)...

1 thinks that Zero Hour Parallax beats him (which is pushing it IMHO; I'd love to hear the argument as to how Hal beats the AM)...

1 thinks Adult Franklin Richards beats him (which just doesnt seem possible to me given how powerful the AM was at the Dawn of Time; I'd love to hear how Franklin wins this fight)...

Anyone else want to support their respective votes with a rational argument?

The LT has been shown to be holding Megaverses, yet it has been shown to lose to Korvac, and thrown out of a universe by Reed Richards. Is Galactus Multiversal? I dont think that Parallax had a good hold on his powers.

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
How does he beat Classic Owen?

Antimatterwave.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Antimatterwave.

Classic Owen could do anything he could think of and was only surpassed in raw power by Classic Beyonder...

You dont think Owen could protect himself from an anti-matter wave? Surely Owen could transform the wave into butterflies or turn himself into anti matter so that it wouldnt harm him pr any number of creative solutions for dealing with an anti-matter wave...

Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Classic Owen could do anything he could think of and was only surpassed in raw power by Classic Beyonder...

You dont think Owen could protect himself from an anti-matter wave? Surely Owen could transform the wave into butterflies or turn himself into anti matter so that it wouldnt harm him pr any number of creative solutions for dealing with an anti-matter wave...

I don't think it would work as nothing worked against it.