Vitiate's Team -vs- Sidious's Team

Originally posted by steveholt951
Since we don't know what "goals" Sidious had and since the inhabitants of Byss apparently lived out their lives fine, whether it was in a perpetual state of a valium induced high or not, it's not the same thing as getting the life sucked out of you, or destroying a planet and achieving immortality.

Byss and the Deep Core corroborates Book of Sith's claim that Sidious used the energy pool created by constantly leeching off Byss's inhabitants to perform "vile experiments" on "sentient life" to "increase his knowledge of the dark side." Sidious not leeching their life completely and simultaneously was actually very wise: by allowing the citizens to live and replenish what he took, he essentially had a perpetual battery to use for ongoing experiments until his death.

We know Sidious had already secured a means of functional immortality by way of clones and the essence transfer, so there's that. Not to mention that it's not as though Sidious had eight thousand Sith Lords on hand to aid him in any sort of ritual to replicate Vitiate's effort.

But if sheer speed of the attack is the standard for success, then Nihilus outstrips Vitiate and Sidious by far. He drained a world by uttering a word, did he not?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Really?

He didn't WTFpwn DE Luke. In contrast, Exar kun did.

Originally posted by you in another thread
VitiateSidious started employing Abeloth like abilities to further safeguard himself from external threats. So we should admit that RevanLuke is a very potent threat in combat.

See the difference?

Sidious is incredibly powerful in his own way. However, to assume that he is possibly the most effective combatant is a logical fallacy.

BS

Vitiate is far ahead of this incarnation of Sidious. .

You have no clue of what you are talking about. See my first post above. .

I would also like to make a comment.
This is a combat scenario, so I think all feats that require ritual, preparation, charging up Force powers etc. are not to be used. (unfortunately this does not bode well to Vitiate)

Instead, combat is a matter of force, but also mastery, speed and agility. All of these are in favor of team 2.

Originally posted by Nephthys
In a fair fight, yes. But with mind rape haxx on their side they can take it.

On the other hand... speed blitz for FTW 💃

But if sheer speed of the attack is the standard for success, then Nihilus outstrips Vitiate and Sidious by far. He drained a world by uttering a word, did he not? [/B]

Only if you decide to take that literally. I guess then, Revan is the heart of the force. And it's not really an apples to apples comparison because Nihilus' drain was an offensive force power that didn't really grant him anything. I believe he had to keep eating force users or he would die. What Vitiate did was a completely different scenario.

Originally posted by steveholt951
Only if you decide to take that literally. I guess then, Revan is the heart of the force. And it's not really an apples to apples comparison because Nihilus' drain was an offensive force power that didn't really grant him anything. I believe he had to keep eating force users or he would die. What Vitiate did was a completely different scenario.

That's the context I mean to apply to the drains. Vitiate's ritual was certainly remarkable, as was Plagueis's mastery of midi-chlorians, but neither of them are really applicable as a weapon.

But I'd like to hear your thoughts on Nihilus. Anything that reduces Nephthys and my favorite ginger to tears is welcome.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol.

He didn't 'mindhaxx' Starkiller, he slightly compelled him to kill Vader. Starkiller wasn't under his control and it was shattered as soon as Kota spoke. Luke he only 'mindcontrolled' after defeating and torturing him and its very ambiguous if thats actually what he did. I dunno about Kam, show the evidence.

And obviously Byss was over several years and through probably ritualistic means.

In any case Vitiate won't be even able to invade Sidious' mind:

But there was a mental pattern the Emperor had taught her long ago, a pattern for those times when he'd wanted his instructions hidden even from Vader. If she could just clear her mind enough to get it in place—

Through the turmoil came a sudden jolt of pain. "Do not attempt to hide your thoughts from me, Mara Jade," C'baoth admonished her sharply. "You are mine now. It is not right for an apprentice to hide her thoughts from her master."

"So I'm already your apprentice, huh?" Mara growled, gritting her teeth against the pain and making another try at the pattern. This time, she made it. "I thought I had at least until I'd knelt at your feet."

"You mock my vision," C'baoth said, his voice darkly petulant. "But you shall kneel before me."

"Just like Skywalker will, right? Assuming he lives through this?"

"He will be mine," C'baoth agreed, quietly confident. "As will his sister and her children."

"And then together you'll heal the galaxy," Mara said, watching his face and listening to the turmoil in her mind. Yes; the barrier seemed to be keeping C'baoth back. Now if she could just hold on to that privacy a little longer . . .

This quote shows how Mara successfully used mental barrier against C'baot, who not only could mind dominate but completely restructure mentality and mind control like puppet. And this technique was learned from Palpatine.

Originally posted by Arhael
Strike team was his chance and he just knocked them unconscious with lightning.

This must be emphasized, Neph. Their enslavement to Vitiate might very well have occurred while they were unconscious and unable to properly defend themselves against such psychic intrusions.

Originally posted by Arhael
Funny how you lowball Sidious' mind domination despite Vitiate never demonstrating it at all. Strike team was his chance and he just knocked them unconscious with lightning. Sidious on the other hand just disarmed Luke and dominated him, while Luke was conscious.

In any case Vitiate won't be even able to invade Sidious' mind:

But there was a mental pattern the Emperor had taught her long ago, a pattern for those times when he'd wanted his instructions hidden even from Vader. If she could just clear her mind enough to get it in place—

Through the turmoil came a sudden jolt of pain. "Do not attempt to hide your thoughts from me, Mara Jade," C'baoth admonished her sharply. "You are mine now. It is not right for an apprentice to hide her thoughts from her master."

"So I'm already your apprentice, huh?" Mara growled, gritting her teeth against the pain and making another try at the pattern. This time, she made it. "I thought I had at least until I'd knelt at your feet."

"You mock my vision," C'baoth said, his voice darkly petulant. "But you shall kneel before me."

"Just like Skywalker will, right? Assuming he lives through this?"

"He will be mine," C'baoth agreed, quietly confident. "As will his sister and her children."

"And then together you'll heal the galaxy," Mara said, watching his face and listening to the turmoil in her mind. Yes; the barrier seemed to be keeping C'baoth back. Now if she could just hold on to that privacy a little longer . . .

This quote shows how Mara successfully used mental barrier against C'baot, who not only could mind dominate but completely restructure mentality and mind control like puppet. And this technique was learned from Palpatine.

The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Yeah 🙂

I hope you don’t mind that I will borrow your own words to make a point about DE Sidious vs DE Luke.

Don’t underestimate DE Luke. 😛

Of course. The difference is that Exar Kun “pwned” Luke when he [Exar] was living in a spirit form for thousands of years. You are free to argue that Vitiate living in the same condition for millennia can replicate this feat. However, the fact remains that neither he, nor Exar, demonstrated this ability when they were well and alive.

Vitiate WTFpwned a Sith Lord at the age of 10. Do the math.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Good that I never claimed that he is the most effective combatant. 😛 All I claim is that he is a better combatant that Vitiate, and his feats and hype illustrate this perfectly.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Surprisingly strong words to support your impotent argument.

“Far ahead” is a very radical stance to take. I advise you to reconsider it.
It is up to you to show how Vitiate is “far ahead of Sidious”. Remember also, I’ve already said that they are arguably even in Force powers. Realistically, this is how generous we can be with Vitiate.

Originally posted by axel_jovan
Your first post fails to clear anything up. Try again.

I would also like to make a comment.
This is a combat scenario, so I think all feats that require ritual, preparation, charging up Force powers etc. are not to be used. (unfortunately this does not bode well to Vitiate)

Instead, combat is a matter of force, but also mastery, speed and agility. All of these are in favor of team 2.

The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

You certainly have no clue of what you are talking about.

Gotta go with Sidious' team.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It is funny that how you have forgotten this:

The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

In any case it does not contradict what I said.

Originally posted by Arhael
It's funny that you say I have forgotten this, when in fact I never read this.

In any case it does not contradict what I said.

It's not like Sidious is lacking for grandiose descriptions.

/sarcasm

Originally posted by Arhael
It's funny that you say I have forgotten this, when in fact I never read this.

Originally posted by Arhael
In any case it does not contradict what I said.

The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)

Their is no indication that the Emperor broke these Jedi after the fight; he did so during the fight. Yes, he pointed this out after the fight. The fight was scripted in this manner to make the audience/players understand that what Vitiate have done to these Jedi.

Also, Vitiate broke both Revan and Malak simultaneously with a fraction of his power. While both Jedi were on the precipice of the dark side when they met him, Vitiate didn't had to exert to break them either. He can legitimately break powerful individuals.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Byss inhabitants were already loyal to Sidious.

It isn't.

Vitiate has only mind ****ed Revan and Malak who were already falling to the Dark Side, and Tol Braga. None of these people are on the level of Sidious, Plaeguis or even Dooku.

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Vitiate has only mind ****ed Revan and Malak who were already falling to the Dark Side

Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
None of these people are on the level of Sidious, Plaeguis or even Dooku.

Also, Dooku isn't such a big deal as you make him out to be. The guy has realistic limitations; he once got captured by some pirates.

Vitiate have demonstrated the capability to break multiple powerful individuals simultaneously on different occasions. It is futile excercise to argue over this. Sidious, Plagueis and Dooku lack in experience in this aspect.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
*Bail Organa, not Kota.

The effect was described as "hypnotic suggestion" and "ghastly charisma" that "mesmerized" Starkiller. When Kota interfered and drew Palpatine's attention, Bail Organa's plea shattered "the Emperor's influence," which slid "off [Starkiller] like oil."

Not seeing where Vitiate's version, after a millennium of study and munching on eight thousand Sith Lords, is any better. 😬

***** I don't care.

Exactly, a 'suggestion' as I said. He was not dominated like Vitiate does with his victims. Vitiate owns their ****ing souls, Starkiller was just compelled to do what Palpatine suggested. And he didn't do it. He stands there considering it for ages allowing others to snap him out of it.

Originally posted by The_Tempest

It happens off-screen and its ambiguous about what Palpatine actually did to him. That isn't usable in a thread.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Probably. But then, so too are Vitiate's. 😬
Reference ambiguity and probability (or possibilities, for that matter), and I can bury all of Vitiate's highest showings in such things.

Which brings me back to the point I made elsewhere: Sidious dominates, no matter how you slice it.

Team 1 wins. [/B]

Well no since we see him prepare to use his telepathy in Revan while in a duel. Read that section in the book again; the Emperor summons his energy for all of a few seconds (enough time for Revan to approach from across the throneroom) and then the attack is ready. What you're attempting to do is apply ridiculous amounts of prep time to weaken the obvious superiority of Vitiate's Force powers. Again, the measurement of time that we have, directly from the source (The novel) indicates that a matter of a few seconds is what's required at most.

We also have the time when Scourge almost shits his pants at the mere brush of Vitiates mind, witnessing untold horrors and collapsing to the floor:

'Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor’s mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child. The touch lasted less than a second, but in that time he witnessed indescribable horrors that dwarfed anything the dark side could conjure even in his worst nightmares. And beneath the formless terrors lurked the unbearable Void, the pure emptiness of total annihilation.'

Except that like Nihilus' technique, Vitiates telepathy has been said to be unblockable unless you can do Revan's lame Yin-Yang attack or know Vitiates 'tricks and traps'.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Also, Dooku isn't such a big deal as you make him out to be. The guy has realistic limitations; he once got captured by some pirates.

😠 😠 😠

Stop bringing that up SWL.

That wasn't a limitation of Dooku's. That was a limitation that Higher Canon has imposed on All Jedi and Sith.

You just know Vitiate would have owned those pirates. 😉

lol

I'm going to **** you so hard in the *** today. excellent

I'll break out the magnifying glass so I can actually tell.