Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate WTFpwned a Sith Lord at the age of 10. Do the math.
Zannah wtfpwned TWO Jedi when she was a child….hmm…ZomG!!!@1 She must be more powerful than Vitiate!11
Vitiate started killing adults since the age of 6.
And during his reign as a Sith Emperor, he purged entire Dark Councils
and subdued entire strike teams without much effort.
ROTS Sidious have nothing on Vitiate.
RotS Siduois is stated in canon sources to be more powerful than any Sith Lord before him….
Even if you can make somewhat sound argument that Vitiate is beyond him in Force power, Sidious still wins a vast majority in saber combat. (I only say "vast majority" out of generosity towards Vitiate’s saber prowess or rather lack of thereof)
Thus, Sidious helds a tremendous advantage over Vitiate in combat.
Well, read this, genius;
The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)
And it’s not like Sidious can be described using the exact same words, right? 😬
Your argument fails miserably.
You certainly have no clue of what you are talking about.
Your argument showed itself to be extremely ill-constructed and meek, to the point it defies good ol’ logic. You should try to employ it once in a while. It would refresh your stale ideas.
Originally posted by Arhael
Funny how you lowball Sidious' mind domination despite Vitiate never demonstrating it at all. Strike team was his chance and he just knocked them unconscious with lightning. Sidious on the other hand just disarmed Luke and dominated him, while Luke was conscious.In any case Vitiate won't be even able to invade Sidious' mind:
So even Vitiate's mind domination powers are in question now...
I am disappointed, [Dooku]many posters hold Vitiate in such high esteem[/Dooku]
Nephthys
***** I don't care.Exactly, a 'suggestion' as I said. He was not dominated like Vitiate does with his victims. Vitiate owns their ****ing souls, Starkiller was just compelled to do what Palpatine suggested. And he didn't do it. He stands there considering it for ages allowing others to snap him out of it.
And what's gonna happen when Sidious suggests Vitiate go f**k himself? uhuh
Nephthys
It happens off-screen
Nephthys
its ambiguous
Nephthys
That isn't usable in a thread.
Nephthys
Well no since we see him prepare to use his telepathy in Revan while in a duel. Read that section in the book again; the Emperor summons his energy for all of a few seconds (enough time for Revan to approach from across the throneroom) and then the attack is ready. What you're attempting to do is apply ridiculous amounts of prep time to weaken the obvious superiority of Vitiate's Force powers. Again, the measurement of time that we have, directly from the source (The novel) indicates that a matter of a few seconds is what's required at most.
The same text also confirms that Vitiate has to expend substantial energy and focus in attempting to conquer Revan's will. Plenty of time for Sidious to utterly annihilate him.
Nephthys
We also have the time when Scourge almost shits his pants at the mere brush of Vitiates mind, witnessing untold horrors and collapsing to the floor:'Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor’s mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child. The touch lasted less than a second, but in that time he witnessed indescribable horrors that dwarfed anything the dark side could conjure even in his worst nightmares. And beneath the formless terrors lurked the unbearable Void, the pure emptiness of total annihilation.'
Revan
The Emperor stood in the exact same position as before; it was as if he hadn’t even moved. Revan began to sense the oppressive presence of the dark side weighing down on him. The Emperor was trying to crush his will: to dominate and enslave his mind as he had before. This time, however, Revan was ready.
Scourge is a walking, talking, lightsaber-equipped vagina. Henceforth, he shall be known as Darth Vaginus.
Revan didn't curl into the fetal position when Vitiate tried to dominate his mind. I see no reason to think Sidious will mimic Scourge's pansy-ass response. And that's if Vitiate even manages to breach the Emperor's "impenetrable" psychic walls.
Nephthys
Except that like Nihilus' technique, Vitiates telepathy has been said to be unblockable unless you can do Revan's lame Yin-Yang attack or know Vitiates 'tricks and traps'.
Kindly direct me to where that was said.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
And…..? Seriously... this is your line of argument?Zannah wtfpwned TWO Jedi when she was a child….hmm…ZomG!!!@1 She must be more powerful than Vitiate!11
Irrelevant. Addressed above.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
But he did not defeat them in combat, didn’t he? 😬 Can you actually prove he defeated them in a duel?? For all we know Vitiate used trickery/deception/preparation and/or ritual. Here these means will not be available to him.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
A feat that is not beyond what Sidious has demonstrated.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
This assettion is just amusing.RotS Siduois is stated in canon sources to be more powerful than any Sith Lord before him….
Even if you can make somewhat sound argument that Vitiate is beyond him in Force power, Sidious still wins a vast majority in saber combat. (I only say "vast majority" out of generosity towards Vitiate’s saber prowess or rather lack of thereof)Thus, Sidious helds a tremendous advantage over Vitiate in combat.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
I’m happy you finally acknowledged my intellectual superiority. But please, for the sake of the debate, stop with the compliments. I’m blushing. 😮
Originally posted by axel_jovan
So? Vitiate is very powerful…yawn…old news.And it’s not like Sidious can be described using the exact same words, right? 😬
Your argument fails miserably.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
This should be your concession, and I accept it.Your argument showed itself to be extremely ill-constructed and meek, to the point it defies good ol’ logic. You should try to employ it once in a while. It would refresh your stale ideas.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Missed that at first...very good point 👆So even Vitiate's mind domination powers are in question now...
I am disappointed, [Dooku]many posters hold Vitiate in such high esteem[/Dooku]
The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)
??? Expected from the likes of you.
Sorry for making it so long to reply, but lately I had some things to attend to.
Now, even after two weeks I cannot really let you get away with so much bad logic.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is funny! Unlike those two unknown Jedi mooks, Vitiate killed Lord Dramath, ruler of his homeworld. The latter was powerful enough to maintain order in his homeworld and prevent potential rebellions. After the fall of Dramath, Mediraas descended in to chaos and other "powerful" Sith competed for the throne but Vitiate killed all of them.
Ah, now you’re talking. I was under impression that you’ve suggested that because Vitiate pwned a certain Sith Lord, he is suddenly on par with Sidious….good to know it was not your line of argument 👆
I must say this is the best point that you’ve made so far…yet it is by no means a conclusive point when it comes to Vitiate vs. Sidious.
From the top of my head: Aside from being powerful and ruling his homeworld, how good in combat Dramath was? Because these characteristics like “powerful” are not quantifiable, unless he did some pretty impressive sh1t combat-wise.
“In the land of blinds a one-eyed man is a kind.” In other words this planet could have been filled with mooks and Dramath was just the most competent mook of them all 😛
Another funny point; these encounters were actually "confrontations."
con•front•ed, con•front•ing, con•fronts
v.tr.
1. To come face to face with, especially with defiance or hostility: I wish to confront my accuser in a court of law.
2. To bring face to face with: The defendant was confronted with incontrovertible evidence of guilt.
3. To come up against; encounter: confronted danger at every turn.
Second, even if confrontation is taken to mean "a fight," it still does not preclude preparation. Have you seen Conan the Barbarian movie with Arnold? Conan fights Doom’s men in the movie finale battle, but he has made some traps beforehand that greatly aided him.
Here Vitiate will not get time to prepare, but he will have to take Sidious full on.
If you have no details concerning this “confrontation”, you should drop this point entirely.
The strike team in question is very different from the one which Sidious faced at the end of Clone Wars. The former strike team comprised of some of the strongest and most resolute Jedi of the Order.
When you loose an argument, your typical choice of argument is to cite outdated sources to boast about Sidious's power. This is getting old; you need to innovate. Plenty of Vitiate's opponents were lightsaber duelists and this "so-called advantage" didn't benefit them; such was the power of Vitiate.
The fact that something was stated to be true and binding before some new material was released, does not preclude the fact that it is still true and binding, especially when no new material/sourcebook overrides it, and incoming material (like CW) supports the notion that Sidious is an extremely potent combatant.
If you’ll find some canon sources that state that Vitiate was the most powerful Sith Lord in history, you are of course welcome to cite them. Good luck.
It was sarcasm. No need to flatter yourself.
So you are now speechless? I accept your concession.
This is classic; those who cannot offer constructive arguments tend to claim victory in debates which they didn't win.
So you will now give priority to a "speculation" over canonical revelation:The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side. (Star Wars The Old Republic Encyclopedia)
??? Expected from the likes of you.
"The Emperor is more then a man - he is the living embodiment of the dark side. Armed with incalculable powers of corruption, the Emperor easily defeats the Knight, Master Braga, and their fellow Jedi, twisting them all to the dark side."
Does not preclude that Vitiate could have very well “twisted them all to the dark side” by the means of prolonged torture after he had already defeated them, than you are lost.
More importantly, this description offers no significant insight into Vitiate’s combat abilities….Just to let you know.
As to mind-domination, as Arhael observed during Vitiate vs. team fight, Vitiate does not subdue them mentally, but wins by virtue of superior Force powers.
This will not be the case with him fighting Sidious.
The clear victor in this fight will be Sidious.
Nice to see you taking over as I was too lazy to respond to him. 😄
Also, on breaking free from mind domination JK states:
"The Emperor overpowered us. Master braga, the others... we all fell. After that, nothing".
JK doesn't remember the events that occurred, while he was under influence. The fact that he remembers how they got overpowered and fell proves that mind domination did not occur until after they got defeated.