Do Unbelievers Know...?

Now this thread is not meant in any way to come down on people or to puff myself up with pride that I know more than everybody or that I'm "in the know" and others aren't. That's not my intention. My intention is to help others receive the gift of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Do unbelievers know or realize that they are quietly fulfilling Bible prophecy?

Whenever I talk about the Bible, or about Jesus, or about the Good News (especially on this site), I get met with bitter words directed against me. Even though I'm usually pretty civil in my discussion (I think I am, anyway) I get those kind of responses. My absolute favorite so far has to be this one:

Originally posted by Omega Vision
No one said you were an alien; aliens are generally imagined to possess above human-level intelligence. Or at least human level intelligence.

And that's nowhere close to the worst of what many true Christians live with on a daily basis. Many, such as in Third World countries, predominantly Muslim countries, etc. suffer physical persecution, rape, assault, murder, etc. And in the western countries, especially the United States, the persecution is mostly verbal, with ridicule and mocking being the forms of choice.

The Bible said it was gonna be this way.

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." (Matthew 5:11)

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:18-20)

Again, I'm not trying to put myself on a pedestal. I'm just legitimately wondering if anyone who would classify themselves as unbelievers actually realize this?

Feel free to discuss 🙂

Bat Dude, I would have removed the name label from that quote.

But, yes, I generally agree with that point you are making. There is an "in" crowd with most intellectuals. If you don't share their beliefs, you are not part of their "in" crowd. I am not talking about KMC, I am talking about the scientific community, in general.

KMC? Well, most of KMC are agnostics who argue as atheists. The theists on this site generally keep quiet because of the aggressive nature of both the people and the discussions. It doesn't bother me because it helps develop my ideas or massage my confirmation bias. 🙂

It's hard believing in science AND a higher power... 🙁

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's hard believing in science AND a higher power... 🙁

For some it is the opposite and they see God in science, all the time.

That's called a self-fulfilled prophecy.

Step 1. The Bible says people should hate Christians
Step 2. Go around deliberately making a nuisance of yourself and pissing people off
Step 3. People complain about you
Step 4. See? I told you! The prophecy is true!

Originally posted by dadudemon
For some it is the opposite and they see God in science, all the time.

was speaking more about being stuck in the middle between those who believe in one over the other.

"And that's nowhere close to the worst of what many true Christians live with on a daily basis. Many, such as in Third World countries, predominantly Muslim countries, etc. suffer physical persecution, rape, assault, murder, etc. And in the western countries, especially the United States, the persecution is mostly verbal, with ridicule and mocking being the forms of choice."

Actually, this is not unique to Christians. I have run across a number of Christian news sources that are always talking about how the latest bunch of Christians got attacked by some haters, and they ignore the same attacks against non-Christian human beings. I see it as a "glass half full" form of religious discrimination. Hating on people outside your belief would be the "glass half empty" discrimination, but ignoring their suffering to protect or cover your own is just an inside-out manifestation of the same problem.

Even your own story perfectly illustrates your egocentric sense of martyrdom. Omega Vision's quote is really, really light criticism against anyone considering you're on an internet forum.

"Whenever I talk about the Bible, or about Jesus, or about the Good News (especially on this site), I get met with bitter words directed against me."

I haven't been on for a year or two, but from what I recall religious arguments are typically met with amused words or tired words on KMC. Far from being a source of bitterness, religion is a source of entertainment!!

"There is an "in" crowd with most intellectuals. If you don't share their beliefs, you are not part of their "in" crowd. I am not talking about KMC, I am talking about the scientific community, in general."

"Intellectuals" is not synonymous with "the scientific community." In my experience (can't back this up with reference), "intellectual" refers to the standard literary works you've read and how you talk and present yourself, while "scientific" refers (loosely) to the filtration process through which you place thoughts (your own and those of others, which is the value of peer review). Also in my experience, scientists only refrain from responding to people who don't pause to let the scientist respond. Their 'in' crowd isn't defined by 'beliefs', like whether you believe in evolution or god, it's defined by whether you're hostile to peer review.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's hard believing in science AND a higher power... 🙁

even heard of the Christian science monitor?

Christians as a group are pretty much the least persecuted people in the world ever.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, most of KMC are agnostics who argue as atheists.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well, most of KMC are agnostics who argue as atheists.

you would know best

Originally posted by -Pr-
It's hard believing in science AND a higher power... 🙁

And this is why some people in the comic forums believe in Doctor Doom.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
And that's nowhere close to the worst of what many true Christians live with on a daily basis. Many, such as in Third World countries, predominantly Muslim countries, etc. suffer physical persecution, rape, assault, murder, etc. And in the western countries, especially the United States, the persecution is mostly verbal, with ridicule and mocking being the forms of choice.

I bet more Christians get raped in the US every day than in Saudia Arabia, by any metric you want to use.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
The Bible said it was gonna be this way.

I'm not surprised. If I was in charge of making prophecies "People who don't agree with you about religion will disagree with you about religion." seems like a pretty sure thing.

Originally posted by Quark_666
Even your own story perfectly illustrates your egocentric sense of martyrdom. Omega Vision's quote is really, really light criticism against anyone considering you're on an internet forum.

I don't mean to come off as egocentric. That's not my goal or intention. If I came off that way at all, I want to apologize, because I didn't mean for it to come off that way.

Christians as a group are pretty much the least persecuted people in the world ever.

That's not true at all. If you're referring to people that are warming a pew in some 501c3 church somewhere, I'd agree with you, because the majority of those people, unfortunately, aren't even saved. 🙁 They are in the world just as much as an atheist. They don't know the real Gospel of Jesus Christ, and they are just as offended by the true Word of God as non-Christians.

Just look at the whole Tim Tebow speech engagement thing. People got into an uproar because the pastor was preaching the Word of God. God says in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin, and that all who do not believe on Jesus Christ will not inherit the kingdom of God. Not that homosexuals or Muslims or Mormons or etc. are "inferior" or that they are "lower" than anyone else, but that if they continue in their sins and continue to reject the Jesus Christ of the Bible, they will be lost forever in hell.

But the media, offended with the Word of God, ran with that story and demonized the pastor and Tim Tebow while painting an unfair picture of Bible-believing Christians as these hate-filled bigots.

How does that not fit exactly what I talked about in the original post?

However, the reason we preach that homosexuality is a sin or that other religions are false and are destined for hell ISN'T because we hate people that do them. It's because we love them enough to tell them the truth. The truth is (and this might come as a shock to most of you) WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO GO TO HELL! If I hated a homosexual or a Muslim or an atheist, I would say nothing to them and let them end up in hell. Now what is the more merciful thing? Pleading with them to repent and believe on Jesus, or letting them live their lives deceived and end up in hell for eternity?

I don't think there's anything in the Bible that's more "true" than what you'd find in any work of literature. I'm not totally opposed to the notion that a God exists. I just see no reason why it should be the God of the Bible, or the Quran, or anything else. It's just as likely that Azathoth rules the Universe, or Mxy from the Superman comics. I would love to see a study where a group of children are raised to believe that Captain Ahab created the Universe from the blood of his lost leg, and every day fights and slays the Great Evil Whale Moby Dick. That's essentially the difference between the Bible and Moby Dick--no one is raised to think of Moby Dick as the Immutable Truth.

Originally posted by Bat Dude
Pleading with them to repent and believe on Jesus, or letting them live their lives deceived and end up in hell for eternity?

If God isn't real, the how do we exist?

Checkmate.

As christians we do tend to come off as superior sounding when we present our beliefs to non believers, and not suprisingly that has a tendency to turn people off to whatever we're trying to say. Most people don't want someone else to pity them, and christians are geared to feel pity for people that they perceive as headed towards hell. What we should remember as christians though is that it is not our place to assume that anybody is destined for hell. We're literally commanded not to judge others repeatedly throughout the Bible. If every christian has a mission we can be assured that not one of them is the mission to place judgement on what WE call non believers. If a person is following Christ's teachings then they will be persecuted more regularly than someone who does not. That person will turn the other cheek when smacked for example, which invites another slap/ more persecution. Kindness is taken for weakness quite often and kindness (the golden rule) is commanded by Jesus. On the other side of the coin many people only follow their own rules and will be unkind for kicks. For people that enjoy these types of thrills, many christians are a wealth of entertainment.

Originally posted by Bat Dude . Many, such as in Third World countries, predominantly Muslim countries, etc. suffer physical persecution, rape, assault, murder, etc. And in the western countries, especially the United States, the persecution is mostly verbal, with ridicule and mocking being the forms of choice.

The Bible said it was gonna be this way.

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake." (Matthew 5:11)

"If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." (John 15:18-20)

Again, I'm not trying to put myself on a pedestal. I'm just legitimately wondering if anyone who would classify themselves as unbelievers actually realize this?

Feel free to discuss 🙂 [/B]

I'd say your general summation of what happens in the world is a bit skewed...While a lot of the persecution is of people of faith...It is merely done in the name of another faith. I'd be hard pressed to find anywhere in the world where non religious people persecute religious people more than where religious people persecute other religions or non religious people.

So it seems your prophecy is being fulfilled by believers rather than non believers.

Do unbelievers know or realize that they are quietly fulfilling Bible prophecy?

Nether unbelievers nor believers are fulfilling Bible prophecy. Bible prophecies cannot be fulfilled because they are nothing more than imaginings my by people of the past, who had no knowledge of the future.