Originally posted by Magnon
Almost all versions of the Hulk have to breathe. Savage Hulk, professor Hulk, child-like Hulk, gray Hulk, ... all had to breathe. WWH may have been able to function in vacuum unaided (unless there was some Sakaar tech involved), but that's an exception rather than the rule.
Current Hulk doesn't need to breath. The guy just adapated to being under water, TWICE. He was just floating around in space unaided...dipped in lava, swimming in lava for a prolong amount of time. Hulk does NOT need to breath and you all using old references isn't helping you. Hulk has changed so much over the yrs, its ridiculous.
Originally posted by leonidasWell, Flash has actually punched others thousands of times before they could move, while Surfer has never actually opened black holes on anybody's brain, so one statement is certainly a lot more valid than the other. How does he even go about opening a blackhole in somebody's brain, send power cosmic through their ears? How can he do that to Thor, who'd just use his hammer to block any incoming power cosmic? Can he even do that to somebody who isn't standing still? etc.
i get the WHY as relates to the 1000 IMPS. but i also get the WHY as regards ss being able to open a pair of black holes in thor's head. lol i guess those types of attacks can't resonate with me for the simple fact that they are so far out of character as to be nearly impossible to credit in this type of battle setting where character plays into it. i did also admit my stance wasn't logical....re: the white martians--well, i did liken them to jonn, who is close to kal imo (same class in many ways) so you're right. again, i was disputing the statement-as-fact part of the argument as much as i was calling into question the durability of the martians. the narration did indeed highlight their power. still, you can't really dispute that in other appearances they were shown to be....less than the narration may suggest. maybe that specific group was beyond the usual white martians. i could easily buy that. i just think morrison was building up some cred for them via narration and feats would be really helpful, especially if one is trying to determine just how powerful the blow was.
and clearly forum flash really is damn near impossible to beat. i also agree that it is well within wally's powerset to ko thor before he blinks. just that it's not in his nature to do so. nice to see we actually agree on some stuff once in while. now stop, or people will get the wrong idea. sneer
Even later, while not under Morrison, the white martians were quite formidable. They preffered the 'gang bang' type of overwhelming their adversary more than before, but they still dialed it up when they needed to and were alone (see Orion setting himself on fire in order to fight a single White Martian). J'onn did well because one time he phased his hands in their chest from behind, and the other he superspeed attacked them while they were plowing Kyle. One on one, under Morrison, he was overwhelmed by a single one, until the Justice League arrived.
I'm quite civil with people who base their opinion on resonable line of thinking, even if it's different from mine. It's just that it rarely happens on this forum..
Originally posted by Philosophía
Well, Flash has actually punched others thousands of times before they could move, while Surfer has never actually opened black holes on anybody's brain, so one statement is certainly a lot more valid than the other. How does he even go about opening a blackhole in somebody's brain, send power cosmic through their ears? How can he do that to Thor, who'd just use his hammer to block any incoming power cosmic? Can he even do that to somebody who isn't standing still? etc.
lol i was sorta talking tongue-in-cheek (though ss did say he was capable of doing it, and he's a fairly reliable narrator), but, i guess the release of pc could be of the sort that allowed him to bind lunatic to that planet while lunatic was fighting him. it wasn't any overt display--nothing for thor to absorb. it just happened. same way he has manipulated genetic material in the past. lest this get off track, it's not my intent to debate the veracity of ss's words. i see where you're going and i'm not in a position to dispute the validity of the 2 statements because clearly you're right. i used ss because in many ways he reminds me of flash is all. both have great powers that they rarely use (flash even more ridiculous than ss, but i think the analogy isn't completely baseless) and the reasons for them NOT to be applicable in forum situations usually comes down to character imo.
Even later, while not under Morrison, the white martians were quite formidable. They preffered the 'gang bang' type of overwhelming their adversary more than before, but they still dialed it up when they needed to and were alone (see Orion setting himself on fire in order to fight a single White Martian). J'onn did well because one time he phased his hands in their chest from behind, and the other he superspeed attacked them while they were plowing Kyle. One on one, under Morrison, he was overwhelmed by a single one, until the Justice League arrived.
and i think all of that would fit in with where i fit them, which is around jonn level, but like i said, maybe some are more powerful than others. this is the kyle scan you were talking about where jonn saved him:
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic169.jpg
they were obviously busy with kyle, but jonn ko'd them pretty easily. in a different arc he fought several at once to allow bats to get away. we're kind of debating minutiae at this point i think. you may feel they are at a higher level than i do, but i don't think the difference in where we see them is all that great. i just don't think ko'ing one automatically begets the notion that a similar blow will ohko thor at all. not imo at least, and i don't think you feel that way either, so, cheers.
I'm quite civil with people who base their opinion on resonable line of thinking, even if it's different from mine. It's just that it rarely happens on this forum..
my ignore list is a little bit extensive.... lol
Originally posted by kgkg
How can you think current Hulk is low herald?You are wrong. That is all.
'cause he's stronger and people still take enough pity on him to slug it out? Please.
Hulk should be thrilled to find himself in the company of Juggernaut, Nefaria, Starhawk and Polaris.
Higher up? no. You're wrong. That is all.
Originally posted by kgkg
Mid-Herald have lot of characters that are comparable to High-Herald so that's not saying much. What about those people? make you believe that Hulk should be in low herald?
It's saying quite a lot actually. It's saying quite a lot actually since it's not supposed to be a huge gap, they're just the choicest ones who often breaks through trans and beyond.
Also notice how every single one can fly, they all either manipulate several kinds of energy or some physical law. I'd be surprised if the Hulk could match any of them in raw power and Waid trying to push the Hulk's speed a little bit through a new artist and Hickman having people conveniently within melee range doesn't change any of that.
A lot of people in low and mid herald could trash him without him ever doing anything, and yet he can still hang with a few because of their PIS-tendency to create giant green scissors and use mythical objects as a frigging hammer.
That is a weakness on their end and not a strength on the Hulk's.
Originally posted by currymanNo. The people in trans are team busters who have consistently beaten teams of mid/high heralds or who have every little problem with the tier below.
It's saying quite a lot actually. It's saying quite a lot actually since it's not supposed to be a huge gap, they're just the choicest ones who often breaks through trans and beyond.
Not sure what does this have to do with Hulk being in low herald category?
Originally posted by currymanSorry you would have a point but Hulk hasn't had a problem hitting his opponents. Look at his fights he beats faster characters ALL THE TIME.
Also notice how every single one can fly, they all either manipulate several kinds of energy or some physical law. I'd be surprised if the Hulk could match any of them in raw power and Waid trying to push the Hulk's speed a little bit through a new artist and Hickman having people conveniently within melee range doesn't change any of that.
Originally posted by currymanA lot of people in Low/Mid/High herald have already been crushed by Hulk in the comics themselves. You crying PIS doesn't change anything.
A lot of people in low and mid herald could trash him without him ever doing anything, and yet he can still hang with a few because of their PIS-tendency to create giant green scissors and use mythical objects as a frigging hammer.That is a weakness on their end and not a strength on the Hulk's.
Hulk has and will continue to be a top tier hero in Marvel.
It's funny how people choose to ignore the comic themselves and make fantasies on why Hulk should have lost.
So all you have is that Hulk is low herald because he is not versatile like the others ? When has versatility ever been the main factor in the rankings?
Hulk is mid/high herald because he wins most of his fights against people in that tier or higher.
You crying PIS doesn't change anything especially when Hulk has beaten top tier characters for decades.
Originally posted by kgkg
No. The people in trans are team busters who have consistently beaten teams of mid/high heralds or who have every little problem with the tier below.
No to what? How dense can you get?
I specifically said that high heralds break into trans at times. There is no ****ing no to this, it happens. I made no comment about Trans and you laugh at the common factor in high herald only to try and brag about one in the trans tier?
Originally posted by kgkg
Not sure what does this have to do with Hulk being in low herald category?
I don't know man, what do the other characters in the rankings have to do with the others? You keep comparing them to eachother. It has something to do with him because it's part of the god damned reason why he shouldn't be in high herald.
Originally posted by kgkg
Sorry you would have a point but Hulk hasn't had a problem hitting his opponents. Look at his fights he beats faster characters ALL THE TIME.
I'm telling you to look at the context. Is this too hard? How was this even a response to what I wrote? I told you that people in high herald either manipulate many kinds of energy and/or universal laws and your response was that the Hulk has been able to hit people ?
I did not mention speed, but you are also right. They are pretty much all faster than him also.
Originally posted by kgkg
A lot of people in Low/Mid/High herald have already been crushed by Hulk in the comics themselves. You crying PIS doesn't change anything.
A lot of people in high herald? Name a lot of people in high herald who have been crushed by Hulk. Thor lost once in a recanted dream-sequence by banner. He's never beaten the Surfer in a 1v1 fight. He beat the Sentry once and it ended in Banner knocking out Reynolds. Who in the high herald category has he crushed ?
He's beaten people in low herald? Good, he should. That's his tier.
He's beaten who in mid-herald? Gladiator in the powerplant? And Hyperion in the 70s?
Did I miss anyone in mid-high herald?
Originally posted by kgkg
Hulk has and will continue to be a top tier hero in Marvel.
That's wonderful. I also think he's a top tier "hero" in Marvel. He can be that in low herald with many other top tier heroes like Nova, Starhawk and Barry Allen (I know right lol).
Originally posted by kgkg
It's funny how people choose to ignore the comic themselves and make fantasies on why Hulk should have lost.
Superfunny.
What comics am I ignoring? What fights am I fantasizing about? Can you please give me a list of mid-high herald fights that I missed.
Originally posted by kgkg
So all you have is that Hulk is low herald because he is not versatile like the others ? When has versatility ever been the main factor in the rankings?
Is that all I have? Did you not read my post?
He's lacking in EVERY SINGLE ASPECT. The only real strong point he has is that he does well in fights against people who are above him. So do Spider-Man, Captain America and the other flagship characters. Should they also be moved into the high herald category? Because Spider-man's defeat of Firelord was A LOT more convincing than any fights Hulk ever had against Galactus' heralds.
I have him in low herald because that's a good ****ing rank for him. Even there you have people who would beat him in a physical confrontation.
Originally posted by kgkg
You crying PIS doesn't change anything especially when Hulk has beaten top tier characters for decades.
Top tier is a terribly ambiguous term. Let's stick to the herald definitions here on KMC. And no, he hasn't. But I would love to have you explain it though, how it's not PIS when a character only uses a fraction of the powers at their disposal.
