Batman, Reed Richards, Dr Doom vs Thanos in a prep battle

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Thanos does get shit stomped here because he's limited in his resources. If not, it would be a better fight.. He would probably still lose either way, but not a stomp. In a comic, of course, this is even more a non fight.

Why are people so impressed with Doom doin what he did to beyonder. Beyonder ALLOWED Doom to even do that. He couldn't with a mere thought blinked doom away from every universe or timestream in existence. With a mere thought he could've. So because he didn't do that i.e. PIS.. and because he basically set up doom to do what he did.. this is suppose to be impressive?

Doom powered through being dissected, like a boss, and jacked Beyonder's powers.

No PIS.

At least someone gets it. 👆

http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/15268476/2.jpg.html

creepsmile

Originally posted by Mindset
Beyonder wanted to study Doom, he didn't allow him do anything.

Doom powered through being dissected, like a boss, and jacked Beyonder's powers.

No PIS.

this is true. I read that story. Secret War i think. Beyonder was depicted as some kind of heavenly beam or light lol. Crazy demonstration of will power by doom. Thanos still my dude but this is like 2 prep god vs 1.

^^ That scan's not from the original story. 😛

Although it is accurate.

Because Doom repeated the actions of the Non-Existent Doom from the future.

He was Non-Existent because Beyonder atomized him across time & space.

So when the Future (where Beyonder got that Doom from in SS I 1984)
arrived as the Present (in FF #288 - 616 Doom sees Beyonder for the First time ever 1986)
the Doom from SS I was not around, did not exist,
because Beyonder destroyed him at the end of SSI)

This caused a Time-loop and if that gap in Time was not filled, it would collapse.

So Beyonder took 616 Doom (best/only candidate since it was his alternate future self anyway)
and literally Replaced the Non-Existent Doom's history, with that of 616 Doom's.

Simple.

So, did 616 Doom steal Beyonder's power?

Yes. But only because Beyonder placed him like a puppet in another's stead,
the one who actually did steal his powers, (an alternate non-existent future Doom)

--------------------------------------------

It's like if someone powerful enough decided to pluck the hilarious MC2 Reed,
at the point of his stipulated comedy towards the LT & Cosmics,
then this powerful being takes 616 Reed and replaces the MC2 with 616 Reed,
then he fast-forwards History (while standing with you in the Present) 😂
and yada, yada, the end of Last Planet Standing and now it's 616
Reed who's victorious because he repeated the exact same actions of MC2 Reed.

Who's feat is this truly? MC2 R or 616 R?

^ It's Doom's feat. Always Doom. 👆

Originally posted by golem370
The Celestial killing gun is as stupid as it sounds for 1 Odin and other Skyfathers had like 1 million years or so to stop the Celestial and couldn't come up with anything. The gun makes about as much sense as Sue stopping Exitar.Thanos with little prep almost killed Galactus and stopped the initial entry of Hunger who was a being that not even Galactus in his billions and billions of years of experience could mess with. When Galactus first came to earth was it not the Watcher that told them about the UN and saved the FF and everybody on earth?

Excellent! So you concede that Thanos has nothing equal to or superior to Reeds Celestial killing device!

Concession accepted!

💃

Originally posted by Mindset
Beyonder wanted to study Doom, he didn't allow him do anything.

Doom powered through being dissected, like a boss, and jacked Beyonder's powers.

No PIS.

Ummm okay.. but with a mere thought.. nano second of a thought.. you agree he could've wiped doom from all existence correct? Let's not act like doom overpowered beyonder and fought beyonder and won. Doom was only allowed to do what he did because The Beyonder allowed hiim to get that close.. allowed him to even exist.

Doom was holding back against Beyonder chucking limitless power against him.

And then when Beyonder thought he won, he went to check it out, and bam.

In the newer series, it seems Doom straight up overpowered him and took his power.

Because that's the power created when Doom and Galactus combine.

^^ 😆 Doom overpowered Beyonder? Come on B.

Originally posted by Galan007

^ It's Doom's feat. Always Doom.

Remember, 616 Doom's mind & personality was in McArthurs body,
and 616 Doom's body was utterly destroyed in the Terrax incident:

(1983)

So 616 Victor Von Doom was on 616 Planet Earth ... prior, during, and after Secret Wars I.

616 Doom had never met or even ever seen the Beyonder: (again ... before, during or after Secret Wars I)

Until the end of Secret Wars II 1986

Because 616 Doom was on Earth, while the other Doom was in Battleworld.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi

Ummm okay.. but with a mere thought.. nano second of a thought..
you agree he could've wiped doom from all existence correct? Let's
not act like doom overpowered beyonder and fought beyonder and
won. Doom was only allowed to do what he did because The Beyonder
allowed hiim to get that close.. allowed him to even exist.

Also ...

616 Doom was banished to the Past, but Beyonder created a circle in time,
so that he would return to this Present,
since this Present was the Future he took the original Secret Wars Doom from.

Also, how about where Reed clearly differentiates the two:

"The 'BANISHED' Doom may well appear here, now,
to fill the space thus created"

........................................................................................................

Now why do you think Reed labels 616 Doom the "banished" Doom,
insetad of just calling him Doom?

Answer:

Because the original Secret Wars Doom (Future Doom) was obliterated across time & space,
uhh, Reed even states it in the freakin scan,
but the banished Doom (616) never died, in fact, he was never even there originally,
but since he's the template, he can fill in for the original Secret Wars Doom,
play out everything that happened in Secret Wars 1 exactly to the T,
even getting obliterated like the original Secret Wars Doom,
but then like Reed says, to finalize the closing of the circle,
616 Doom (unlike the original Secret Wars Doom who was utterly destroyed)
now has to return to the Present, "to fill the space thus created"

What space was that?

The space left by the original Secret Wars Doom (plucked from the Future)
who was destroyed before the point from which he was plucked became the Present.

This is why Reed said: "events now in our past, have yet to happen to Doctor Doom"

If it was always Doom 616, then why hasn't he experienced these events?

No need to answer that, I already have. stoned

That's a lot of words just to tell me I'm right.

^^ You know I like yur style. Sorry I had to burst that Doom bubble with on panel proof.

Although I will submit:

Could 616 Doom do what his Non-Existent Future self did?

Absolutely. That PIS had to happen no matter what.

It was part of the plot to make Beyonder curious while near powerless,
therefore giving him a reason to return to Earth in Secret Wars II.

But the Fact is:

In Marvel, "Futures" (all outside 616) that are seen or touched by the "Present" (within 616)
are always located in a separate Alternate/Diverged Reality.
(that alternate/diverged reality is one of the countless possible Futures of 616)

In fact, even one minute into the Future leads to Another Universe:

Weren't you the one saying Black Celestial Arc Galactus was the same as 616 Galactus?

Anyway, 616 Doom took Beyonder's powers, I don't see what big deal is.

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ 😆 Doom overpowered Beyonder? Come on B.

The fear in Beyonder's eyes too

^^ Well in that case, since that scan you're highlighting represents Retcon Beyonder,
we can always say,
Beyonder sub-consciously allowed Doom to steal his power:

Simply because as an incomplete Cube Being
he had a compelling urge to satisfy the desire of others.

Doom's desire? I want your power Beyonder. 🙂

Originally posted by Mindset

Weren't you the one saying Black Celestial Arc Galactus was the same as 616 Galactus?

Anyway, 616 Doom took Beyonder's powers, I don't see what big deal is.

Here's the difference concerning Doom:

There Never was a 616 Doom (scarred-mystic-Reed rivaling Doom) in 616.
That Victor Von Doom (the original 616) was living a quiet life in McArthur's body.

Yes. 616 Doom's Mind and Personality (everything that makes him Doom)
was NOT, NEVER in the original SSI Battleworld universe.
Again, 616 Doom was on Planet Earth doing McArthur's wife,
while the heroes & villains were in another reality on Battleworld.

This is why Beyonder plucked a non-existent Doom,
because well ... there was none in the Present of FF #288.

This is exactly the reason a Timeloop anomaly was created.
The Present was finally here FF#288 (nearly Two years AFter SSI)
and the Doom from SSI was missing from Reality,
because he was obliterated at the end of SSI by Beyonder.

Mindset ... it's a technicality issue.

Again, I agree that 616 Doom would have been able to do anything his Future-self could do.

Only that technically speaking, in that particular Beyonder feat,
it wasn't exactly him.

To be honest, since original scarred 616 Doom didn't exist in the Future Beyonder plucked SSI Doom from,
just who in the hell was that Doom in SSI is the question?

It wasn't McArthur, since his mind/personality was in limbo,
and it wasn't original scarred 616 Doom since his mind/personality
was in McArthur's body,
so ... ?

Only thing we're left with is a non-existent Doom. hm

Originally posted by Mr Master
^^ Well in that case, since that scan you're highlighting represent [b]Retcon Beyonder,
we can always say,
Beyonder sub-consciously allowed Doom to steal his power:

Simply because as an incomplete Cube Being
he had a compelling urge to satisfy the desire of others.

Doom's desire? I want you power Beyonder. 🙂 [/B]

Also, the newer Secret Wars really didn't seem to take the "retcon" into account. It was just a retelling from a different angle.

The only thing it really changed was that Doom wasn't blasted apart.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

That doesn't say he allowed it.

Since Doom wanted his power ... just sayin.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Also, the newer Secret Wars really didn't seem to take the "retcon"
into account. It was just a retelling from a different angle.

The only thing it really changed was that Doom wasn't blasted apart.

Beyonder's incredible omniversal feat is no surprise,
he's a unique Cube being as you know.

Kosmos, the Maker, (weaker incarnations of the retconned Beyonder)
and that aside, that Alternate Beyonder, was operating on a Multiversal scale,
but was still beneath Eternity.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

The only thing it really changed was that Doom wasn't blasted apart.

Look at Klaw's conspiring smile, look at the end scene from the original
as he's losing control in front of Cap.

Right after this scene, this Doom is obliterated by Beyonder.

(which isn't depicted since the next page is the last of the mini & concerns Spiderman on land)

Originally posted by Mr Master
Not in so many words, but imo, the context of what he's being told by Shaper and Owie,
signifies that Beyonder needed (sub-consciously) to give others what they wanted.

Since Doom wanted his power ... just sayin.

And it could be talking about what Doom accomplished after he gained the powers as well.

Originally posted by Mr Master
I disagree. The Retcon applies.

Beyonder's incredible omniversal feat is no surprise,
he's a unique Cube being as you know.

Kosmos, the Maker, (weaker incarnations of the retconned Beyonder)
and that aside, that Alternate Beyonder, was operating on a Multiversal scale,
but was still beneath Eternity.

Actually true debater, that also still applies.

Look at Klaw's conspiring smile, look at the end scene from the original
as he's losing control in front of Cap.

Right after this scene, this Doom is obliterated by Beyonder.

(which isn't depicted since the next page is the last of the mini & concerns Spiderman on land)

I'm talking about blasted apart by the Beyonder when he was fighting him.
When Doom was standing over him fully limbed and had Beyonder in a mercy hold.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

And Beyonder stated nothing of the sorts.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

And it could be talking about what Doom accomplished
after he gained the powers as well.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

Just because it's essentially a retelling printed currently, that
doesn't make it factor in all the changes made to the character.
Hell, Beyonder was an Inhuman by the time that series came out.

It told the original series to almost a T. It really makes no
difference had it been printed or not.

For example, if Secret Wars 2 was retold in a different POV, would
we say it is was retconned back to "really happening" or would we
look at it, and say "Well Golly jeeze, that's an interesting scene that
happened in that series where Spider-Man is beating off on JJJ's
newspapers, I wonder if that was retconned to be an illusion or
not."

The only details changed (retconned) were Beyonder defeating Celestials,
and scarring the LT, and being "millions of times" you know the rest.

Everything else, did happen, from threatening Eternity's existence,
to erasing Death itself.

Btw. Beyonder was Never an Inhuman Mutant.
That was Beyonder mind-screwing the heroes.
It was supposed to be divulged as to why in a follow up to Illuminati issues,
but the series was discontinued.

I personally didn't liked the way it abruptly ended.

But again, the Handbooks of 2008 clear that up for us, so ...

That's like 3 years after Illuminati nonsense.

Originally posted by Branlor Swift

I'm talking about blasted apart by the Beyonder when he was fighting him.
When Doom was standing over him fully limbed and had Beyonder in a mercy hold.

What issue is this?

Originally posted by Mr Master
Never said he did.

Plausible, but doubtful imo.

I don't get the analogy's relation to the Spiderman mini,
but all I know is that it's canon, and it's a retelling of Secret Wars to the T,
because Secret Wars took place to the "T" even in the handbooks of 2006, 2007 and 2008.

The only details changed (retconned) were Beyonder defeating Celestials,
and scarring the LT, and being "millions of times" you know the rest.

Everything else, did happen, from threatening Eternity's existence,
to erasing Death itself.

Btw. Beyonder was Never an Inhuman Mutant.
That was Beyonder mind-screwing the heroes.
It was supposed to be divulged as to why in a follow up to Illuminati issues,
but the series was discontinued.

I personally didn't liked the way it abruptly ended.

But again, the Handbooks of 2008 clear that up for us, so ...

That's like 3 years after Illuminati nonsense.

That never happened that I recall in the original series.
I only say it didn't cause I just looked through 9-12 and couldn't
find that descriptive scene B.

What issue is this?

Yes, and I'm saying it isn't a retelling with some sort of retcon in mind. It's a retelling of a classic story not a retelling with "now we know" angles in it. Not much changes admittedly, but I wasn't highlighting "post retcon" Beyonder. I was highlighting Beyonder.

That's an assumption. But, like you said, it was never talked about, so the last thing we have on him is that he was an Inhuman Mutant.

That's a year later. Didn't know handbooks retconned comic books.

It didn't happen like that in the new retelling is what I was saying. Doom overpowered Beyonder instead with mercy skills, as opposed to having his limbs ripped off.