Quan Chi vs. Shang Tsung

Originally posted by quanchi112
We saw what against Liu Kang ? Liu was a zombie and later showed he was not defeated and prevented Shang from reaching the top. The other fight he recovered.

So it only counts for Shang. Thought as much. We have a canon fight in which Quan destroys him and a video game programmer admitting he's the better sorcerer and yet you still want to live in your own world about this.

Tsung's powers and his youth comes from the souls and yet the soulnado was used. Yet you want to act like shang was on death's door and ignore everything out of personal love of a character. It's obvious.

The game portrays him as recovered. You pretend he was hurt.

Prove it. I guess souls don't power him up now. I guess him acting like he recovered was just a trick to conceal his acl tears. LOL.

He fought using his skill without missing a beat. When your guy loses or cheats you make up excuses.

1. Barbossa--He never saw him and only cheated because his peg leg made him far weaker despite no proof of any of this.

2. Dumbledore--He doesn't kill. Any good wizard who defends his own life and kills is a murderer and can't kill in self defense. LOL.

3. Shang--He was weakened. Bring up irrelevant fights. Argue through a series of speculative points.

Quan won. He dominated. Get over it.

He was beaten and came back to sneak attack. Beaten does not mean dispatched forever as you seem to believe

Never said that. Not a fight at 100%

Never said he was on death's door. Strawman much?

If you say so.

They do power him up they just don't heal him

Bringing up other threads is a sign of weakness. Show more fear buddy.

You've lost. Again.

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok

You're right i forgot about the second time but Shang still got three with the final one being two handed right? Just look at his fight with Zombie Kang. He is moving a lot better, at 100% then he was after being beaten up.

I was just pointing out that Noob would be pretty much brainwashed therefore his opinion about being better is suspect.

The Oni in general are beastly so i was generalizing. Again it really doesn't matter at this point since i was wrong in believing Chi to still be an Oni.

i don't think it's suspect at all because again why would he care what noob thinks? All he cares about from noob is that he does what he's told.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
The only one in the fight to not take a two handed lightning blast was shang both of the ones quan took were two-handed and the first was sustained. He wasn't showing any strain to move in his fight with quan, he wasn't moving any differently other than a bit slower but at the same time quan was moving faster in his fight with kenchi while injured.

i don't think it's suspect at all because again why would he care what noob thinks? All he cares about from noob is that he does what he's told.

Shang definitely takes a two-hander. And a pretty long one, at that.

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Shang definitely takes a two-hander. And a pretty long one, at that.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
i know

Did you overlook it?

Originally posted by ArtificialGlory
Did you overlook it?

Originally posted by thanos-prime
What i meant to say was that shang didn't take ONLY two-handed blasts whereas quan did.

The one-handed blast that Shang took was a souped-up one that sent him flying for several meters and put him out of commission for quite some time.

What do you base it being souped-up on?

Originally posted by thanos-prime
What do you base it being souped-up on?

On two things: the fact that Raiden took quite a bit of time to prepare that attack and the fact that it sent Shang Tsung flying.

Raiden posing before the blast is not proof of anything. Quan, Shang and Raiden were sent flying from every blast they took.

You guys are arguing under the false premise that Shang and Quan are equal, therefore when Shang is knocked down or sent flying further, he was obviously hit harder. This is not true.

Raiden was defending himself against two powerful people trying to kill him, why would he hold back on either of them?

Originally posted by thanos-prime
The only one in the fight to not take a two handed lightning blast was shang both of the ones quan took were two-handed and the first was sustained. He wasn't showing any strain to move in his fight with quan, he wasn't moving any differently other than a bit slower but at the same time quan was moving faster in his fight with kenchi while injured.

i don't think it's suspect at all because again why would he care what noob thinks? All he cares about from noob is that he does what he's told.

Are you saying that the damage Quan took from Jax's one hit is somehow equal to the damage Shang took from Raiden?

He cares a great deal. It's been established that they are not slaves and do have free will which is clearly shown when Scorpion turns on him. Scorpion also refused to kill Bi Han and needed to coaxed into doing so. If they were simple slaves coaxing would not be needed. Sereena also turned on him to aid Sub Zero. Ashrah may have also been in his employ at one time and left tho im not too sure about this. But the point is that Noob believing Quan had done wrong to him could result in his betrayal so it is very important Quan have him believe that he is improved and better off. Hence it being suspect

Originally posted by juggerman
Are you saying that the damage Quan took from Jax's one hit is somehow equal to the damage Shang took from Raiden?

He cares a great deal. It's been established that they are not slaves and do have free will which is clearly shown when Scorpion turns on him. Scorpion also refused to kill Bi Han and needed to coaxed into doing so. If they were simple slaves coaxing would not be needed. Sereena also turned on him to aid Sub Zero. Ashrah may have also been in his employ at one time and left tho im not too sure about this. But the point is that Noob believing Quan had done wrong to him could result in his betrayal so it is very important Quan have him believe that he is improved and better off. Hence it being suspect

bi han would not have felt he was wronged if he had indeed been made more powerful. He plays off their emotions and makes deals with them to get what he wants.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Raiden posing before the blast is not proof of anything. Quan, Shang and Raiden were sent flying from every blast they took.

You guys are arguing under the false premise that Shang and Quan are equal, therefore when Shang is knocked down or sent flying further, he was obviously hit harder. This is not true.

Raiden was defending himself against two powerful people trying to kill him, why would he hold back on either of them?

That's wrong. Shang Tsung was not sent flying by the first blast(which was two-handed) and neither was Quan Chi when Raiden broke through his wall of skulls. They were merely knocked down on their asses. Also, why would Raiden bother merely posing in a middle of a fight against two powerful sorcerers who are trying to kill him? Seems terribly foolish to me. At any rate, Raiden does put his hands together right before firing off that blast, if you want to be anal.

Of course he wouldn't hold back. That doesn't mean all of Raiden's attacks were equal.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
No what i was saying is that quan was also moving faster in his fight with kenchi while injured than in his fight with shang, Meaning he was also injured to the point that in the shang, quan fight they were moving about the same speed.

bi han would not have felt he was wronged if he had indeed been made more powerful. He plays off their emotions and makes deals with them to get what he wants.

Ok so we agree that the fight was not at 100% but you believe they were injured equally dispite Shang taking more damage? Ok i'll go with that for now. So we have two fighters that now are moving slower and less agile with one having a distinct strength and durability advantage and you think that the fight was fair and balanced? At 100% Shang's speed and technique would have much better as his showing on the pyramid was superior to anything Quan has shown.

He was dilibertly framed by Quan Chi. He then provoked Scorpion into killing him just so Quan Chi could use him to further his own agenda. He also tricked Bi Han into killing Scorpion in the first place which ultimately culminated in his death and "servitude". I think he'd have plenty to be sore about if Quan was not manipulating him.

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok so we agree that the fight was not at 100% but you believe they were injured equally dispite Shang taking more damage? Ok i'll go with that for now. So we have two fighters that now are moving slower and less agile with one having a distinct strength and durability advantage and you think that the fight was fair and balanced? At 100% Shang's speed and technique would have much better as his showing on the pyramid was superior to anything Quan has shown.

He was dilibertly framed by Quan Chi. He then provoked Scorpion into killing him just so Quan Chi could use him to further his own agenda. He also tricked Bi Han into killing Scorpion in the first place which ultimately culminated in his death and "servitude". I think he'd have plenty to be sore about if Quan was not manipulating him.

You might be right if he knew about this but iirc he doesn't nor would he have any reason to suspect it as who would tell him? and if he could manipulate their feelings and thoughts why not make them absolutely loyal? cause as you brought up earlier they do have free will.

Ah and as for showings on the pyramid as far as technique are concerned beating kenchi in a swordfight > anything shang did.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
shang did take more damage but your also forgetting that he absorbed souls which imo would have made them around equal. Shang was the one who was shown to be less skilled in their own fight, it wasn't strength or durability that finised shang but pressure points too his arms iirc. exactly what skill showing are you refering to? Beating a slow zombie kang? Getting manhandled by shiva? running for his life from kahn?

You might be right if he knew about this but iirc he doesn't nor would he have any reason to suspect it as who would tell him? and if he could manipulate their feelings and thoughts why not make them absolutely loyal? cause as you brought up earlier they do have free will.

Ah and as for showings on the pyramid as far as technique are concerned beating kenchi in a swordfight > anything shang did.

Ok so we are saying they were about equally injured now. Wrong. Shang was the one who used what looked like a pressure point. Quan pretty much just overpowered him totally. Kang was far from slow plus he had weapons. We don't know if he faced Shiva at all since it could have easily been the real Ermac there. He did not run from Kahn, he easily dodged and attacked, effortlessly knocking Kahn away.

Exactly he does not know. And Quan wants to keep it that way. He would also want Bi Han to be very pleased with his new form so leading him to believe it was better would be a way to do so. He clearly can not just make them blindly loyal so he must do the next best thing which is to make them believe they are better off and are in his debt. Iirc Noob had very few memories of his prievous life according to Armageddon so how exactly would he just know he was stronger and/or complete like this if he wasn't basically told so?

His skill was with swords. That has very little to do with h2h combat unless you believe all master swordsmen can step into the ring with pro boxers/mma fighters and do well. I will give you that Quan has shown much more skill with blades than Shang has but Shang has shown more skill unarmed than Quan has

Originally posted by juggerman
Ok so we are saying they were about equally injured now. Wrong. Shang was the one who used what looked like a pressure point. Quan pretty much just overpowered him totally. Kang was far from slow plus he had weapons. We don't know if he faced Shiva at all since it could have easily been the real Ermac there. He did not run from Kahn, he easily dodged and attacked, effortlessly knocking Kahn away.

Exactly he does not know. And Quan wants to keep it that way. He would also want Bi Han to be very pleased with his new form so leading him to believe it was better would be a way to do so. He clearly can not just make them blindly loyal so he must do the next best thing which is to make them believe they are better off and are in his debt. Iirc Noob had very few memories of his prievous life according to Armageddon so how exactly would he just know he was stronger and/or complete like this if he wasn't basically told so?

His skill was with swords. That has very little to do with h2h combat unless you believe all master swordsmen can step into the ring with pro boxersmma fighters and do well. I will give you that Quan has shown much more skill with blades than Shang has but Shang has shown more skill unarmed than Quan has

What is the difference between making him believe he is more powerful than before and making him believe quan is his king or god which would give him obedience? i don't think Armageddon is cannon to mk9 which is where i believe the quote is from.

he is more skilled than shang with or without weapons refer to where quan beat him easily in their hth fight.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
Yes i believe they were. If that wasn't a pressure point quan hit him with then why didn't shang attempt to block or even lift his arms for the first attack?

Shang hit Quan twice in the face, Quan hit Shang back once, Quan swung and Shang blocked at which time Shang jabbed Quan's armpit with his fingers, Shang then charged with both hands forward and Quan grabbed his arms and threw him, Quan attacked with both arms in a downward motion, Shang blocked, Quan forced Shang's arms down and pounded his face, Shang then tried to maybe choke Quan but Quan grabbed his arm and twisted it and lifted Shang up by the neck. There was no pressure point by Quan and maybe one by Shang

Originally posted by thanos-prime
That was shang you can see ermac lying on the ground behind quan when he's fighting kenchi then when he goes to finish him the body is gone,

That's not really proof one way or the other as Ermac could have easily gotten back up on his own.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
plus it would have been impossible to get past kahn who was holding the line at the bottom of the pyramid.

Stryker, Kabal, Shiva, Quan Chi and numerous others all got past Shao Kahn rather easily once the pyramid appeared so why couldn't Shang?

Originally posted by thanos-prime
easily dodging and jumping out of the way for dear life are two different things then he almost got his head crushed.

That did really counter anything i said tho.

I'll cover the rest in a bit g2g for now

Originally posted by juggerman
Shang hit Quan twice in the face, Quan hit Shang back once, Quan swung and Shang blocked at which time Shang jabbed Quan's armpit with his fingers, Shang then charged with both hands forward and Quan grabbed his arms and threw him, Quan attacked with both arms in a downward motion, Shang blocked, Quan forced Shang's arms down and pounded his face, Shang then tried to maybe choke Quan but Quan grabbed his arm and twisted it and lifted Shang up by the neck. There was no pressure point by Quan and maybe one by Shang

That's not really proof one way or the other as Ermac

Sorry I meant to get back to you yesterday.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
kang was slow compared too his living self as we have seen them fight numerous times and it's never that uneven a fight.

Two things here.

1. Kang was not at all slow in fact if we compare his speed to his MK-DA showing he is moving just as quickly, maybe even faster. Also we have never actually seen them fight outside of Deadly Alliance and Armageddon.

2. Shang stole Kang’s soul after he killed him gaining all of his skill and knowledge, making Shang a much better fighter. It’s not unlikely that he would now be superior to Kang in just about every way, and by extension most of the MK roster.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
What is the difference between making him believe he is more powerful than before and making him believe quan is his king or god which would give him obedience? i don't think Armageddon is cannon to mk9 which is where i believe the quote is from.

Maybe nothing. Maybe a lot. Besides we know that Raiden is a god and nobody “evil” serves him just off of that alone. Nor do they serve/fear the elder gods even tho they are supremely powerful. Again we see that he needs his minions to believe they are in his debt and that he is doing right by them or else he risks rebellion, so why would he not want Noob to believe he was better off? The events of Armageddon itself is not canon but the back stories still are. Like there still is a Dragon King, there still are Taven and Daegon, and Daegon is running around awake at this point. Noob, unless dead at this point due to getting knocked into the soulnado, still would be the same Noob we learn more about in Deception and Armageddon.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
he is more skilled than shang with or without weapons refer to where quan beat him easily in their hth fight.

In that fight Shang still looked more skilled, he just got overpowered. Quan look more like a brute than a skilled fighter. The only time we see some real skill from Quan is against Kanshi when he has the advantage of an extra sword.

Originally posted by thanos-prime
there was time enough inbetween him forcing his arms down and punching him for shang to block.

Unless of course he was too physically exhausted due to getting his ass whooped by the thunder god. You’ve just added a point to my stance. Tell me where exactly you believe Quan pressure pointed Shang since that seems to be what you think happened.