Originally posted by Sundipped
^
There is no disputing what happened.
I was explaining why it happened.
And I am taking your explanation even further; the new writer f**ked everything up and even went so far as to write Galactus down to do it...
Yes, Galactus was intended to lose to Tyrant...I accept that, BUT the new guy didnt have to write Galactus down to do it.
Originally posted by leonidas
hmm, what i make of it is pretty simple--galactus beat him in a fight already. tyrant's actions don't act as a retcon. it's possible that tyrant learned a new trick--absorbing g's power. but that doesn't mean he's necessarily MORE powerful.
It's all right there on panel. So there's no need for speculation.
just well suited to beat g (and a little pis-sy maybe...) regardless, that trick wouldn't work on odin, so....it doesn't really matter very much imo.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
Did you just compare the likes of Superman to Galactus?
Superman is just as important to the DCU as Galactus is to the Marvel Universe (in some case, even more so) in terms of status. Obviously, Superman isn't close to Galactus' power levels a vast majority of the time, but still, using status and a character's universal significance as a means to argue their power level is a misstep.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You complain about people taking Odin's statements about Thanos at face value, then go ahead and use this as some sort of validation for Galactus' "jobber" stereotype? Hypocrisy much?Against Galactus, Thanos ended up begging for his life. With Odin, he was ready to fight to the finish. Which one is more impressive, I'll let the onlookers decide.
Erm, what?
When you look at all of Odin's fights and then compare it to his battle with Thanos, I don't see how anyone can even BEGIN to argue that Thanos was a peer to Odin, much less could have threatened him on any level whatsoever. Odin claims to the contrary don't even make sense in the same context of the fight. It was literally Starlin putting over Thanos as best as he could while still not being so ridiculous as to have Thanos best Odin.
Galactus' power level shifts radically. It always has been and likely always will. Writers can't even agree how powerful he is when he's hungry or fully fed. I said some posters can call it PIS others can call it jobbing, I never said I personally do. I just feel Galactus' very nature as a character enables his power level to be all over the map. Nothing hypocritical about it. 😬
Odin forced his way into Galactus' mind without aid (unlike Thanos), didn't beg to be spared (unlike Thanos), and even caused enough physical damage to Galactus (albeit with some help from Thor) to force him to reconstitute himself. I'm hard pressed to see how anyone could actually argue Thanos doing better than Odin. You also have the above point showing us that per Odin's history, that fight wasn't anything close to his best.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Superman is just as important to the DCU as Galactus is to the Marvel Universe (in some case, even more so) in terms of status. Obviously, Superman isn't close to Galactus' power levels a vast majority of the time, but still, using status and a character's universal significance as a means to argue their power level is a misstep.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Erm, what?When you look at all of Odin's fights and then compare it to his battle with Thanos, I don't see how anyone can even BEGIN to argue that Thanos was a peer to Odin, much less could have threatened him on any level whatsoever. Odin claims to the contrary don't even make sense in the same context of the fight. It was literally Starlin putting over Thanos as best as he could while still not being so ridiculous as to have Thanos best Odin.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Galactus' power level shifts radically. It always has been and likely always will. Writers can't even agree how powerful he is when he's hungry or fully fed. I said some posters can call it PIS others can call it jobbing, I never said I personally do. I just feel Galactus' very nature as a character enables his power level to be all over the map. Nothing hypocritical about it. 😬
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Odin forced his way into Galactus' mind without aid (unlike Thanos), didn't beg to be spared (unlike Thanos), and even caused enough physical damage to Galactus (albeit with some help from Thor) to force him to reconstitute himself. I'm hard pressed to see how anyone could actually argue Thanos doing better than Odin. You also have the above point showing us that per Odin's history, that fight wasn't anything close to his best.
Edit: Quote function
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
You're basically saying that should Superman die, the universal balance will be broken, resulting in a cosmic catastrophe. Galactus is far more fundamentally tied to the fabric of the Marvel Universe, than Superman is to the DC Universe.Same logic is easily applicable to Galactus as well. When you take into account all of Galactus' fights, I don't see how anyone can even begin t argue that Thanos is anything more than an insect to Galactus. Him launching Galactus a hundred yards(an attack which by Thanos' own admission did nothing more than enrage Galactus), is literally Starlin putting over Thanos as best as he could while not being so ridiculous that Thanos could be a serious threat too Galactus.
I was specifically referring to your usage of Galactus being launched by Thanos as an example of him "jobbing", when it was anything but that.
Who's arguing that Thanos would perform better than Odin? I presumed you were implying that Odin fared better against Thanos than Galactus did, hence I responded in kind.
Considering some of the stories published by DC that imply, if not state that Superman is the nexus of the multiversal/cornerstone of reality, "everything comes from Superman" etc, etc, etc. the argument is sound.
And who wrote Thanos doing that to Galactus? The same guy who wrote him "having power similiar to Odin's".
I don't think its jobbing at all. Starlin wanking Thanos a bit, maybe, but not real jobbing. But several posters think every time Galactus isn't displayed at true "abstract" levels or performing universal if not multiversal scale feats, he's somehow jobbing or its the result of PIS.
I already stated I believe Galactus > Odin. Thanos sending Galactus flying backwards as he did while not dealing any damage whatsoever to Odin doesn't change that and I wouldn't use those instances as the means to "put Odin over" Galactus to begin with.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Considering some of the stories published by DC that imply, if not state that Superman is the nexus of the multiversal/cornerstone of reality, "everything comes from Superman" etc, etc, etc. the argument is sound.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And who wrote Thanos doing that to Galactus? The same guy who wrote him "having power similiar to Odin's".
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I don't think its jobbing at all. Starlin wanking Thanos a bit, maybe, but not real jobbing.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
But several posters think every time Galactus isn't displayed at true "abstract" levels or performing universal if not multiversal scale feats, he's somehow jobbing or its the result of PIS.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I already stated I believe Galactus > Odin. Thanos sending Galactus flying backwards as he did while not dealing any damage whatsoever to Odin doesn't change that and I wouldn't use those instances as the means to "put Odin over" Galactus to begin with.
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
The key word here is "some". If it was as clear-cut as you're implying it to be, DC wouldn't have experimented with Death of Superman. With Galactus, it's a whole different ball game.What does Starlin's wankery prove here, apart from the fact that an Odin-level guy ended up begging for his life against Galactus? The answer is: it proves nothing.
Why bring it up then?
Those several posters are wrong then. I've discussed this with Bran before, and based on what I gathered from that conversation, it's beyond a shadow of a doubt that Galactus is no more of a jobber than Odin is.
You would be wise not to do that, because it would be a pitiful attempt at cherry-picking examples of supposed relativistic superiority between 2 characters.
And Galactus' death isn't always hyped to end the universe as we know it, either. Point is, Galactus being the highly significant figure in the Marvel Universe doesn't automatically mean his power should suggest that. And to be frank, it hasn't since his inception. There are people out there who are far less significant than Galactus is in the cosmic "balance" of things and yet more powerful than he. Status and power shouldn't be confused or made mutually exclusive.
He's not an Odin-level guy, though. That's the point. Starlin stating that he is means jack when you look at Odin's feats and stories independent of Thanos and Starlin. Maybe he's equal to Odin in Starlin's bubble world, but overall histories suggest otherwise.
I brought it up because it seems that people argue and get upset over every time Galactus shows up and doesn't "herald my rage" or operate as a fundamental force of the universe. My initial use of the words "PIS" and "jobbing" were, if you read my post, possible definitions as to why people think Galactus was at any given "low point". Personally, I just think Galactus varies from time to time based on how much he's fed and whether or not what he fed on had "nutritional value" or not. That and, like most characters, his feats showcase him on the low, mid, and high end.
See above.
Okay? Seeing as I didn't do that nor am I trying to do that as it would be beyond stupid, it's a moot point.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
And Galactus' death isn't always hyped to end the universe as we know it, either.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Point is, Galactus being the highly significant figure in the Marvel Universe doesn't automatically mean his power should suggest that. And to be frank, it hasn't since his inception. There are people out there who are far less significant than Galactus is in the cosmic "balance" of things and yet more powerful than he. Status and power shouldn't be confused or made mutually exclusive.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
He's not an Odin-level guy, though. That's the point. Starlin stating that he is means jack when you look at Odin's feats and stories independent of Thanos and Starlin. Maybe he's equal to Odin in Starlin's bubble world, but overall histories suggest otherwise.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I brought it up because it seems that people argue and get upset over every time Galactus shows up and doesn't "herald my rage" or operate as a fundamental force of the universe. My initial use of the words "PIS" and "jobbing" were, if you read my post, possible definitions as to why people think Galactus was at any given "low point". Personally, I just think Galactus varies from time to time based on how much he's fed and whether or not what he fed on had "nutritional value" or not. That and, like most characters, his feats showcase him on the low, mid, and high end.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Okay? Seeing as I didn't do that nor am I trying to do that as it would be beyond stupid, it's a moot point.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
See above.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm more shocked that people are taking Odin's comments about Thanos at face value and even believe that Thanos could have turned things around if the fight continued.Compare Odin vs. Thanos to Odin vs. Surtur, Odin vs. Mangog, Odin vs. the Dark Gods, Odin vs. Forsung, Odin vs. Seth, Odin vs. Galactus, etc.
Those guys had Odin on the ropes or even beat him. Thanos didn't do shit. And Odin hadn't even tapped into his full power based on the vast history of all of Odin's other fights. Yet we're to take at face value that Thanos has an source of power equal/similiar to Odin's own just because Odin (read: Jim Starlin) said so?
I'm all for using character statements IF they make sense and IF they coincide with the majority of showings of a character, but really, Odin being a charitable old coot doesn't mean Thanos didn't get his ass kicked and would have been off far worse if Odin continued the Asgardian SmackDown. That fight is, however, a huge testament to Thanos' freakish durability, which has always been far superior than his offensive output, imo.
Usually you don't miss the point this bad.. but here you did. It has nothing to do with Thanos turning the fight around or how much he effected Odin. it has EVERYTHING to do with Their common foes looking better against Thanos and Galactus than Odin has... How on God's green earth you missed this basic point repeated over and over is beyond me.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
I'm more shocked that people are taking Odin's comments about Thanos at face value and even believe that Thanos could have turned things around if the fight continued.Compare Odin vs. Thanos to Odin vs. Surtur, Odin vs. Mangog, Odin vs. the Dark Gods, Odin vs. Forsung, Odin vs. Seth, Odin vs. Galactus, etc.
Those guys had Odin on the ropes or even beat him. Thanos didn't do shit. And Odin hadn't even tapped into his full power based on the vast history of all of Odin's other fights. Yet we're to take at face value that Thanos has an source of power equal/similiar to Odin's own just because Odin (read: Jim Starlin) said so?
I'm all for using character statements IF they make sense and IF they coincide with the majority of showings of a character, but really, Odin being a charitable old coot doesn't mean Thanos didn't get his ass kicked and would have been off far worse if Odin continued the Asgardian SmackDown. That fight is, however, a huge testament to Thanos' freakish durability, which has always been far superior than his offensive output, imo.
Explain what isn't correct below please Jake
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
You do understand the difference between looking to TEST your might... PREPPING and AMPING for a fight.. as opposed to... not looking for a fight, in fact, seeking somebody help who is tyring to fight you.. Not prepping or amping. Which one do you think go the more powerful Thanos? I mean this is common sense were WWK. Tryant got the more powerful version.. and yet.. in a much shorter fight admitted he would be killed if he stayed. That speaks volumes about who Thanos thought was superior having felt both of their powers. That person would be Tyrant.Next, you have this idea where Thanos doean't fear dying or even wants to die because of his love for Mistress death. This couldn't be furhter from the truth.. and shows a very limited knowledge of the character that you have. Thanos on COUNTLESS occasions has fought for his life and or left when the going got tough. If he had this mindset you're talking about... They in each one of those situations where he was fighting back or leaving when the going got tough.. why would he if we bought into your simplistic view of Thanos that he doesn't care if he dies. Of course he cares if he dies and has tried to not make that happen COUNTELSS times.
Next, I think you're forgetting the fact that Tyrant GAINED most of if not all his power back when he decided to come out of hiding. The narration makes this crystal clear... To paraphrase... NOw that I've gained my power back.. I'm ready to challenge Galactus and rule the Universe. So clearly, after many many years Tyrant has been slowly gaining his power back along with much needed experience with his powers. People often think DP Tyrant was much weaker than FP and that isn't the case. He seemed to be only smaller in size than the original version.
Next, you act like Galactus OWNED Tyrant the first time they met... A battle that lasts thousands of years.. with galaxies destroyed as a side effect ISN'T an easy battle. There is no way on earth it ever could be. An easy battle is one shotting somebody or two or three shotting somebody. A battle that lasts THAT long and destroys that much stuff... is far from an easy battle. Thus, it makes perfect sense that if Tyrant had gained all his pwoer back.. he was once again a real threat to Galactus just like he was before. Which would expalin why Galactus TREATED him as such. He treated Tyant like he was a a major player and went out of character even for him. When he's dealt with Ego, Mephisto, Aug. and many others.. he treats them like they are well beneath him.. they ow dare they think they can even challenge him. He does this even in a STARVING state. Yet, against Tyrant he was VERY concerned about a battle with him. So much so that he prepped and feed like he hadn't in years just to battle him. SS confirms how big a threat Tyrant is.. when is shows via narration him saying... I have to hurry to the battle before they BOTH destroy one another. To act like Tyrant wsn't a threat is just plain silly.
Point is, Tyrant is above Odin and their common foes show that exact same thing.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Are people ACTUALLY saying he looked better against Tyrant than Odin LMAO... Against Tyrant his clothes weren't TOTALLY burnt off and he was all cut up.. Against Odin his clothes were almost completly in tact with no cuts or damage visible. If you ask Thanos... He would laugh at this thread being made... Tyrant clearly came off as looking superior to Odin.Also, are people being stupid on purpose or just stupid in general. Thanos ddn't just go LOOKING FOR THE ORB. HE WENT LOOKING FOR A FIGHT.. HE WANTED TO TEST HIS MIGHT. He prepped... amped his blasts with an orb and still got beaten by Tyrant. Whom he ADMITTED who kill him.No small feat to get Thanos to say that. Against Odin.. he WASN'T looking for a fight... in fact wanted Odn's help... didn't prep.. didn't amp.... and was ready to fit on and NEVER admitted any superiority for Odin.
What can we take from all this... Tyrant wins all except maybe 2.
Originally posted by zopzopA) That's not true. That was the way it was written under Lackey. Under Marz (his creator) Tyrant had amassed enough power to where he was ready to field a challenge from Galactus himself. Galactus backed down, despite catching Tyrant off guard and by surprise, and said he'd face Tyrant at a later date and on his own terms.
It's all right there on panel. So there's no need for speculation.
so....how was what i said NOT true? you mean he was written that way for the first time so it....WASN'T new? 😕
galactus BEAT HIM. suddenly, tyrant can absorb his powers and galactus is shocked by this? how is THAT possible, exactly? if it wasn't a new trick, g was what? a complete moron for forgetting? anyway you try and slice it, that whole confrontation was idiotic. tyrant appeared very much tailor made (ie--via plot) to beat g.
How do we know it wouldn't work vs Odin? If the Chaos War panel involving Gaea was a retcon then yeah (not like he'd need it anyway). But if the panel was merely a retelling (as some people on this forum believe too) then Tyrant rage stomps Odin and literally EATS him.
lol well......because he never did it to ANYONE else before? that's not very hard. tyrant seemed able to absorb bio energy like g. seemed able to drain it from g (ie beat him at his own game) even--which is retarded. that does NOT mean he could absorb energy from odin. at all. with no proof to support that ability, it's ridiculous to purport he could do that to odin.
besides, given your new stance about ONLY believing things you see on panel, i KNOW you would never support such a stance or accept that as a possibility.....😖hifty: (i was able to use that little tidbit even quicker than i thought i'd be able to....)
Originally posted by leonidas
so....how was what i said NOT true? you mean he was written that way for the first time so it....WASN'T new? 😕galactus BEAT HIM. suddenly, tyrant can absorb his powers and galactus is shocked by this? how is THAT possible, exactly? if it wasn't a new trick, g was what? a complete moron for forgetting? anyway you try and slice it, that whole confrontation was idiotic. tyrant appeared very much tailor made (ie--via plot) to beat g.
Under LACKEY, NOT UNDER MARZ.
Under MARZ, Galactus avoided the confrontation at all costs (despite catching Tyrant by surprise and unprepared) and even told the Surfer if he faced off vs Tyrant there would be destruction like the universe had never seen before and he'd hold off facing him until he did so on his (Galactus'😉 terms.
The writer made it clear as day, Tyrant was more than a match for Galactus.
Originally posted by zopzopUnder MARZ, Galactus avoided the confrontation at all costs (despite catching Tyrant by surprise and unprepared) and even told the Surfer if he faced off vs Tyrant there would be destruction like the universe had never seen before and he'd hold off facing him until he did so on his (Galactus'😉 terms.
The writer made it clear as day, Tyrant was more than a match for Galactus. [/B]
At all costs?
Why would there be destruction unlike the universe had never seen before when the universe has already seen;
- complete destruction
- destruction of the multiverse
- more powerful versions of the two of them fighting before
Originally posted by curryman
At all costs?Why would there be destruction unlike the universe had never seen before when the universe has already seen;
- complete destruction
- destruction of the multiverse
- more powerful versions of the two of them fighting before
That was my whole point.
It should be noted Thanos repeated that same warning during the Cosmic Powers arc conclusion. 😉