Odin (in Destroyer) vs. Tyrant

Originally posted by zopzop
Bro, that was Galactus' way of saving face because he DID NOT WANT TO FIGHT TYRANT, despite catching him by surprise and unprepared.

That was my whole point.

It should be noted Thanos repeated that same warning during the Cosmic Powers arc conclusion. 😉

I have no doubt that Galactus wouldn't wanna get into a tussle with Tyrant.

I just think Galactus' desire to avoid spending unnecessary amounts of energy goes further than you think it does. I think that barring Marz' pitiful writing (and yes I can't stand Tyrant as a character even if I loved the cosmic series 😛), Galactus is capable of beating Tyrant very, very hard. It's just that it would probably cost him some and there's no reason why he would take that fight when he could avoid it.

Originally posted by curryman
I have no doubt that Galactus wouldn't wanna get into a tussle with Tyrant.

I just think Galactus' desire to avoid spending unnecessary amounts of energy goes further than you think it does. I think that barring Marz' pitiful writing (and yes I can't stand Tyrant as a character even if I loved the cosmic series 😛), Galactus is capable of beating Tyrant very, very hard. It's just that it would probably cost him some and there's no reason why he would take that fight when he could avoid it.

That's your opinion. Two of the three writers that handled Tyrant (the third writer just did one issue post death) see Tyrant as more than a match for Galactus, even a FED AND PREPPED Galactus.

It's my opinion that the Starbrand is beyond a planetary level artifact despite what that @$$hole Hickman is doing with it, but that's it. He's the writer, he gets to decide power levels in his story and his characters.

So ON PANEL, Tyrant is a peer to Galactus and hence Tyrant would wreck Odin.

Originally posted by zopzop

Under LACKEY, NOT UNDER MARZ.

Under MARZ, Galactus avoided the confrontation at all costs (despite catching Tyrant by surprise and unprepared) and even told the Surfer if he faced off vs Tyrant there would be destruction like the universe had never seen before and he'd hold off facing him until he did so on his (Galactus'😉 terms.

The writer made it clear as day, Tyrant was more than a match for Galactus.

lol CLEAR AS DAY? seriously? GALACTUS FORGOT about the very BASIS of tyrant's power! c'mon zop, that is utterly ridiculous.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7909/silversurferv3108p09.jpg

you're equating g's not wanting to have a direct conflict with his being frightened. he had no REASON to battle tyrant at that time and g is always about saving his energy. likewise, g could have continued battling odin in the destroyer armour, but didn't. if he was afraid of tyrant, was he afraid of the armour? i mean, the staredowns they had were reminiscent of each other.

anyway, that above scan makes it pretty damn clear imo that tyrant was ONLY a match for g BECAUSE g was a retard and 'forgot' his powers. after a single blow tyrant is instantly in doubt about his course of actions. g was definitely the more powerful, unfortunately he was also the bigger idiot.....

tyrant was definitely<galactus in terms of overall power. horrific writing was more than enough to make up the difference though.

i find it ironic though that your constant going-on about this has only strengthened my belief that this is a very close match indeed. 😄

Originally posted by zopzop
That's your opinion. Two of the three writers that handled Tyrant (the third writer just did one issue post death) see Tyrant as more than a match for Galactus, even a FED AND PREPPED Galactus.

It's my opinion that the Starbrand is beyond a planetary level artifact despite what that @$$hole Hickman is doing with it, but that's it. He's the writer, he gets to decide power levels in his story and his characters.

So ON PANEL, Tyrant is a peer to Galactus and hence Tyrant would wreck Odin.

That doesn't many any god damned sense though.

Full powered Tyrant can't be completely demolished by Galactus and then in his weaker form be a match for a prepped Galactus. That's a freaking huge inconsistency that conflicts with Tyrant's originstory. Clearly you must be misjudging the extent to which Tyrant at low-power could trouble Galactus.

Originally posted by leonidas
lol CLEAR AS DAY? seriously? GALACTUS FORGOT about the very BASIS of tyrant's power! c'mon zop, that is utterly ridiculous.

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/7909/silversurferv3108p09.jpg

you're equating g's not wanting to have a direct conflict with his being frightened. he had no REASON to battle tyrant at that time and g is always about saving his energy. likewise, g could have continued battling odin in the destroyer armour, but didn't. if he was afraid of tyrant, was he afraid of the armour? i mean, the staredowns they had were reminiscent of each other.

anyway, that above scan makes it pretty damn clear imo that tyrant was ONLY a match for g BECAUSE g was a retard and 'forgot' his powers. after a single blow tyrant is instantly in doubt about his course of actions. g was definitely the more powerful, unfortunately he was also the bigger idiot.....

tyrant was definitely<galactus in terms of overall power. horrific writing was more than enough to make up the difference though.

i find it ironic though that your constant going-on about this has only strengthened my belief that this is a very close match indeed. 😄

The fight you are referencing happened under LACKEY (like I said), I'm talking about the showdown that was avoided by Galactus under MARZ.

Do you understand that even without the actual fight written by LACKEY, Galactus postponed a fight with Tyrant despite taking Tyrant by surprise and despite the fact that he was the one demanding his herald back unless there be war between them.

The Surfer called him on this, stating it's not in Galactus' nature to appease a foe. Galactus responded he put off a costly confrontation and that when he does face Tyrant, it will be at a time and place of his own choosing.

Originally posted by curryman
That doesn't many any god damned sense though.

Full powered Tyrant can't be completely demolished by Galactus and then in his weaker form be a match for a prepped Galactus.

READ WHAT'S ON PANEL.

Originally posted by zopzop
He wasn't weaker genius. Did you read the god damned comic? He stated he was at the peak of his power and ready to field a challenge from Galactus :

READ WHAT'S ON PANEL.

I read the comic 17 years ago.

And there's no need to give me attitude when I've treated you with respect thus far. While a lot of people think that comics are for kids there's certainly no need to debate like them.

Thank you for clearing up that serious inconsistency.

Originally posted by zopzop
Proof you're not even reading my posts and just responding to respond.

The fight you are referencing happened under LACKEY (like I said), I'm talking about the showdown that was avoided by Galactus under MARZ.

Do you understand that even without the actual fight written by LACKEY, Galactus postponed a fight with Tyrant despite taking Tyrant by surprise and despite the fact that he was the one demanding his herald back unless there be war between them.

The Surfer called him on this, stating it's not in Galactus' nature to appease a foe. Galactus responded he put off a costly confrontation and that when he does face Tyrant, it will be at a time and place of his own choosing.

nah, i'm reading, but it was worth pointing out that what's crystal clear is that you're picking and choosing the proof you think best suits you instead of looking at the accumulated proofs. you said CLEAR AS DAY. but.....it is no where CLOSE to clear as day that tyrant was galactus's equal. we know g beat him in the past. we SAW that g was so much more powerful that tyrant instantly doubted his course of action. you say under one guy he was close, when another makes it clear it was NOT very close and that tyrant needed plot device help to have a chance at winning. and some irony--your REASON for saying the one thought it was close? NARRATION! lol sorry zop, but i find that pretty damn hilarious....

as for the second part:

http://imageshack.us/f/51/themightythor06rizz3nem.jpg/

g also prepped and left asgard UNAPPEASED. moreover, galactus said ss's idea of a pact (g actually stooped to making a nearly universe-long pact instead of trying to TAKE what he wanted!) was UNACCEPTABLE and odin told them both in no uncertain terms that he and asgard would "put their boots to their necks" if they tried to retake the seed! lol odin got EVERYTHING he demanded (including the ss HIMSELF--which is a greater prize than tyrant....) and g just stood there and took it from him. that is FAR more humiliating than his backing down from tyrant imo. so i suppose you translate that to mean that galactus was afraid of odin and asgard? you're not doing yourself any favors pursuing this line zop....

Originally posted by zopzop
He stated he was at the peak of his power and ready to field a challenge from Galactus

STATED? oh the irony.... and what makes tyrant a reliable narrator, exactly? we KNOW he lost to g already and later saw that the only reason he was able to match him was blatant stupidity. i see no reason--at all--to believe that tyrant wasn't simply bluffing, at least to some degree.

Originally posted by leonidas
nah, i'm reading, but it was worth pointing out that what's crystal clear is that you're picking and choosing the proof you think best suits you instead of looking at the accumulated proofs. you said CLEAR AS DAY. but.....it is no where CLOSE to clear as day that tyrant was galactus's equal. we know g beat him in the past. we SAW that g was so much more powerful that tyrant instantly doubted his course of action. you say under one guy he was close, when another makes it clear it was NOT very close and that tyrant needed plot device help to have a chance at winning. and some irony--your REASON for saying the one thought it was close? NARRATION! lol sorry zop, but i find that pretty damn hilarious....

as for the second part:

http://imageshack.us/f/51/themightythor06rizz3nem.jpg/

g also prepped and left asgard UNAPPEASED. moreover, galactus said ss's idea of a pact (g actually stooped to making a nearly universe-long pact instead of trying to TAKE what he wanted!) was UNACCEPTABLE and odin told them both in no uncertain terms that he and asgard would "put their boots to their necks" if they tried to retake the seed! lol odin got EVERYTHING he demanded (including the ss HIMSELF--which is a greater prize than tyrant....) and g just stood there and took it from him. that is FAR more humiliating than his backing down from tyrant imo. so i suppose you translate that to mean that galactus was afraid of odin and asgard? you're not doing yourself any favors pursuing this line zop....

Under Marz, even when Tyrant originally lost, it was after a huge battle that left both sides in a bad way. Galactus stated so on panel.

Regarding the Odin/Galactus scenario, show me how Galactus "prepped" for that before I comment on why he stood their and allowed Odin to berate him.

It's not like he needed to prove himself, he just got through humiliating Odin.

Originally posted by leonidas
STATED? oh the irony.... and what makes tyrant a reliable narrator, exactly? we KNOW he lost to g already and later saw that the only reason he was able to match him was blatant stupidity. i see no reason--at all--to believe that tyrant wasn't simply bluffing, at least to some degree.

Then Tyrant told Galactus to take the trash and leave.

Originally posted by zopzop
It wasn't narration. It was one of the characters straight up saying he didn't want to fight.

Under Marz, even when Tyrant originally lost, it was after a huge battle that left both sides in a bad way. Galactus stated so on panel.

Regarding the Odin/Galactus scenario, show me how Galactus "prepped" for that before I comment on why he stood their and allowed Odin to berate him.

It's not like he needed to prove himself, he just got through humiliating Odin.

Bluffing? That's why Galactus was the one to back down despite the fact that he straight up stated there would be war between them if Tyrant didn't hand over his herald?

Then Tyrant told Galactus to take the trash and leave.

it WAS narration. like surtur stated he had galaxy destroying power was narration. surtur too, 'said it'.

according to kurpt, g knew he was going into a massive battle--ie he was looking for a fight. he also wasn't hungry or at low energy, so.....

and again with the humiliating? honestly, tell me this zop--who decided AGAINST continuing the battle? odin in the armour, or galactus?

were g soooo far above, he would have destroyed odin and the rest for DARING to speak to him like that, for daring to dictate terms, for outright threatening him and the ss. at one point he screamed that he wouldn't leave without the seed. but.......guess what...? yeah, it doesn't sound like odin was very humiliated to me.

on top of that we have ss (a very reliable narrator) TELLING galactus that he CAN NOT WIN a battle against the asgardians. we also have g admitting that the asgardians tired him (ie--he was now at far less than full power imo) after he reconstituted himself (which also belies the notion that the headbutt did 'nothing' and that g was 'good as new' after it... though i suspect some would likely interpret the 'you tire me' line differently.....). all those things point to his not being very eager to pursue the battle. then we have odin--more powerful than ever--in the armour as well. that's a lot of reason to think that g was no where near as far above odin and asgard as some want to believe and was in no way eager to continue the fight. which is self-evident as, you know, he didn't.

and, sure, bluffing. it was borne out later on, and proven previously that g>tyrant. g didn't fight because he didn't want to. backing down from him=backing down from asgard? scenarios are very similar. by your reasoning, afraid of tyrant=afraid to continue battling odin in the armour?

oh and zop--refresh my memory if you don't mind--where was it shown g prepped for tyrant in their first meeting again? the one where g "backed down" from him.

What does Odin bring that can take down Tyrant? What does Odin excel in that Tyrant can't exceed or counter with? I'm at a loss for the answer to these questions.

Originally posted by leonidas
it WAS narration. like surtur stated he had galaxy destroying power was narration. surtur too, 'said it'.

according to kurpt, g knew he was going into a massive battle--ie he was looking for a fight. he also wasn't hungry or at low energy, so.....

and again with the humiliating? honestly, tell me this zop--who decided AGAINST continuing the battle? odin in the armour, or galactus?

were g soooo far above, he would have destroyed odin and the rest for DARING to speak to him like that, for daring to dictate terms, for outright threatening him and the ss. at one point he screamed that he wouldn't leave without the seed. but.......guess what...? yeah, it doesn't sound like odin was very humiliated to me.

on top of that we have ss (a very reliable narrator) TELLING galactus that he CAN NOT WIN a battle against the asgardians. we also have g admitting that the asgardians tired him (ie--he was now at far less than full power imo) after he reconstituted himself (which also belies the notion that the headbutt did 'nothing' and that g was 'good as new' after it... though i suspect some would likely interpret the 'you tire me' line differently.....). all those things point to his not being very eager to pursue the battle. then we have odin--more powerful than ever--in the armour as well. that's a lot of reason to think that g was no where near as far above odin and asgard as some want to believe and was in no way eager to continue the fight. which is self-evident as, you know, he didn't.

and, sure, bluffing. it was borne out later on, and proven previously that g>tyrant. g didn't fight because he didn't want to. backing down from him=backing down from asgard? scenarios are very similar. by your reasoning, afraid of tyrant=afraid to continue battling odin in the armour?

Galactus stopped fighting Odin because the Seed wasn't there, you know THE ENTIRE REASON FOR THE CONFRONTATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. There was no point in continuing after you already HUMILIATED your opponent. Once you read the entire issue in context (something I originally didn't do and just went by a scan or two of their fight) it makes sense.

Also you said Galactus prepped for his fight vs Odin. Show me how he prepped.

Originally posted by leonidas
oh and zop--refresh my memory if you don't mind--where was it shown g prepped for tyrant in their first meeting again? the one where g "backed down" from him.

I said Galactus took Tyrant by surprise. Tyrant had no clue Galactus was going to show up on his doorstep looking for his herald. Galactus had the element of surprise and backed down.

This is why this conversation is becoming annoying. You aren't even reading what I'm saying AND you are ignoring on panel evidence and basically making up stories to suit your narrative. You've provided nothing in the way of scans to back up anything you are saying.

Originally posted by leonidas
it WAS narration. like surtur stated he had galaxy destroying power was narration. surtur too, 'said it'.

according to kurpt, g knew he was going into a massive battle--ie he was looking for a fight. he also wasn't hungry or at low energy, so.....

and again with the humiliating? honestly, tell me this zop--who decided AGAINST continuing the battle? odin in the armour, or galactus?

were g soooo far above, he would have destroyed odin and the rest for DARING to speak to him like that, for daring to dictate terms, for outright threatening him and the ss. at one point he screamed that he wouldn't leave without the seed. but.......guess what...? yeah, it doesn't sound like odin was very humiliated to me.

on top of that we have ss (a very reliable narrator) TELLING galactus that he CAN NOT WIN a battle against the asgardians. we also have g admitting that the asgardians tired him (ie--he was now at far less than full power imo) after he reconstituted himself (which also belies the notion that the headbutt did 'nothing' and that g was 'good as new' after it... though i suspect some would likely interpret the 'you tire me' line differently.....). all those things point to his not being very eager to pursue the battle. then we have odin--more powerful than ever--in the armour as well. that's a lot of reason to think that g was no where near as far above odin and asgard as some want to believe and was in no way eager to continue the fight. which is self-evident as, you know, he didn't.

and, sure, bluffing. it was borne out later on, and proven previously that g>tyrant. g didn't fight because he didn't want to. backing down from him=backing down from asgard? scenarios are very similar. by your reasoning, afraid of tyrant=afraid to continue battling odin in the armour?

If this is supposed to be a punking contest then Tyrant wins hands down.
The fact that Loki ran off with the seed changed everything. That's the reason there was no fight. Before it was realized that the seed was no longer there, G was determined not to leave without it. This is in sharp contrast to G coming for Morg but still leaving empty handed. Hell, Tyrant had just concluded expending energy against the heralds when G arrived. You would think that would play somewhat of a factor catching Tyrant right after he had been in battle but no....G STILL couldn't leave with Morg. The significance of Tyrants power was backed up by the fact that G stated he would need all of his strength for Tyrant, and his direction of Morg to find a suitable world to devour.

Even after Surfer reiterated the consequences that you mention, G remained persistent.

"It will be mine! No matter the cost"!

So now you have G (after koing the head of Asgard) seriously neglecting the heed of Surfer which includes going to war with all of Asgard compared to Tyrant (by his lonesome) kicking G out his crib without Morg.

Lol at your analysis of G saying he grew tired. G simply meant he was tired of what he felt was procrastination by the Asgardians. He wasn't speaking in terms of physical condition. Don't see how anyone can interpret that otherwise.

Originally posted by zopzop
Surtur "said it" but didn't back it up (during that issue, MUCH later he destroyed a galactic core. I provided you the proof from both the comic AND the handbook). Tyrant said it AND backed it up by forcing Galactus to stand down. It's right there on panel.

Galactus stopped fighting Odin because the Seed wasn't there, you know THE ENTIRE REASON FOR THE CONFRONTATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. There was no point in continuing after you already HUMILIATED your opponent. Once you read the entire issue in context (something I originally didn't do and just went by a scan or two of their fight) it makes sense.

of course he had lost the seed, but he could have continued to try to find it. he suffered the indignity of being dictated to. at that point, he was being humiliated in a way that has NEVER happened before. out of pure principal he should have decimated odin and tried to rip out the tree. but...he didn't.

Also you said Galactus prepped for his fight vs Odin. Show me how he prepped.

he was fed and looking for battle. UNLIKE his first confrontation with tyrant. what level was he at? maybe he simply was hungry and knew that (hungry as he was) a battle with tyrant wouldn't have been a sure thing. when he DID prep, as you said, he was CLEARLY more powerful than tyrant who needed stupidity to win.

WTH are you talking about? Who said Galactus prepped for their first meeting where Galactus backed down.

precisely. 🙂

I said Galactus took Tyrant by surprise. Tyrant had no clue Galactus was going to show up on his doorstep looking for his herald. Galactus had the element of surprise and backed down.

lol surprised? who cares. if you don't know what level he was at it doesn't matter at ALL. cap could surprise thor and it wouldn't matter.

This is why this conversation is becoming annoying. You aren't even reading what I'm saying AND you are ignoring on panel evidence and basically making up stories to suit your narrative. You've provided nothing in the way of scans to back up anything you are saying.

huh? i SHOWED you g being humiliated before all of asgard. i SHOWED you ss telling g he could NOT win the fight. again, like your differing writers takes, you're picking and choosing what you want to take into account here.

g wanted that seed--badly. he left without it. we were told by ss g could not win. g was humiliated in asgard at the end and lost ss. he had a choice and could have continued. the reason he didn't was the seed was gone BUT he was given many other reasons to fight on. he didn't. not that hard imo.

Originally posted by Sundipped
If this is supposed to be a punking contest then Tyrant wins hands down.
The fact that Loki ran off with the seed changed everything. That's the reason there was no fight. Before it was realized that the seed was no longer there, G was determined not to leave without it. This is in sharp contrast to G coming for Morg but still leaving empty handed. Hell, Tyrant had just concluded expending energy against the heralds when G arrived. You would think that would play somewhat of a factor catching Tyrant right after he had been in battle but no....G [B]STILL couldn't leave with Morg. The significance of Tyrants power was backed up by the fact that G stated he would need all of his strength for Tyrant, and his direction of Morg to find a suitable world to devour.

Even after Surfer reiterated the consequences that you mention, G remained persistent.[/b]

and, according to ss, would have lost. 🙂 i have no idera how you can look at the entirety of the story and say g wins a punking contest. g was utterly humiliated in that scene i posted. unlike g to simply be humiliated like that. and g wanted the seed FAR more than he ever wanted morg but still suffered to be DICTATED to.

So now you have G (after koing the head of Asgard)

and after being ko'd by the head of asgard who then summoned the armour and was fully ready to continue fighting......

Lol at your analysis of G saying he grew tired. G simply meant he was tired of what he felt was procrastination by the Asgardians.

seriously? lol indeed. where was ss saying at the START of the battle--you can NOT WIN this battle? they seemed all for it at the start. after the headbutt and the toppling of g, ss suddenly all concerned says you can't win. after seeing how much energy it takes g to break a single forcefield off thanos, i think that after battling asgard for an issue and a half, he was likely speaking literally as opposed to being bored.... so, yeah, again we'll agree to disagree.

He wasn't speaking in terms of physical condition. Don't see how anyone can interpret that otherwise. [/B]

well, now you know.

Originally posted by leonidas
and, according to ss, would have lost. 🙂 i have no idera how you can look at the entirety of the story and say g wins a punking contest. g was utterly humiliated in that scene i posted. unlike g to simply be humiliated like that. and g wanted the seed FAR more than he ever wanted morg but still suffered to be DICTATED to.

😐 Did someone jack your account?
This is not like you to misinterpret scenes like this. Point out to me where Surfer said G would lose. Give me the exact words used. And I said Tyrant wins the punk contest because really, G didn't get punked at all by Odin in Mighty Thor 5 or 6. Also point out where G is being "dictated" to. Tyrant was "dictating" to G too but his actually served it's purpose.

Originally posted by leonidas
and after being ko'd by the head of asgard who then summoned the armour and was fully ready to continue fighting......

G was ready for round 2 as well so what's your point. You're trying to make as much out of this confrontation as you can but it's not much for you to work with.

Originally posted by leonidas
seriously? lol indeed. where was ss saying at the START of the battle--you can NOT WIN this battle? they seemed all for it at the start. after the headbutt and the toppling of g, ss suddenly all concerned says you can't win. after seeing how much energy it takes g to break a single forcefield off thanos, i think that after battling asgard for an issue and a half, he was likely speaking literally as opposed to being bored.... so, yeah, again we'll agree to disagree.

Again show me where Surfer says "you can't win". And it took 2 blasts from Galactus to get through that shield. A shield which was erected at the highest setting by Thanos moments before G unleashed. Even after that, G survived the collision of two planets that was meant to finish Hunger. Now how did he manage that if he was supposed to be so depleated? There are absolutely no indications that G was even remotely exhausted during that fiasco with Odin. How could anyone even think such a thing about a being of Galactus' status considering not even one punch was thrown.

Originally posted by leonidas
well , now you know.

Nope.......I'm not convinced.

@Sundipped: He's taking Surfer's statement that it is beyond even Galactus to slaughter a race of warrior gods at face value, and taking the meaning of that as being Galactus would have lost had the battle continued. From what I can tell, the aftermath of that scene in which Surfer agrees to make a deal with the Asgardians is also being misconstrued to mean that Galactus was humiliated in some manner or the other in that instance.

Originally posted by leonidas
of course he had lost the seed, but he could have continued to try to find it. he suffered the indignity of being dictated to. at that point, he was being humiliated in a way that has NEVER happened before. out of pure principal he should have decimated odin and tried to rip out the tree. but...he didn't.

he was fed and looking for battle. UNLIKE his first confrontation with tyrant. what level was he at? maybe he simply was hungry and knew that (hungry as he was) a battle with tyrant wouldn't have been a sure thing. when he DID prep, as you said, he was CLEARLY more powerful than tyrant who needed stupidity to win.

And Galactus was NOT hungry prior to taking Tyrant by surprise, he was aboard his vessel NOT searching for food, but performing experiments till he noticed Morg hadn't returned yet.

I can post scans of that AND Firelord commenting on how enraged Galactus was that his herald wasn't back yet and heaven help whoever Galactus is hunting.

I could post that but what's the point. It's not like you'll read it.

surprised? who cares. if you don't know what level he was at it doesn't matter at ALL. cap could surprise thor and it wouldn't matter.

huh? i SHOWED you g being humiliated before all of asgard. i SHOWED you ss telling g he could NOT win the fight. again, like your differing writers takes, you're picking and choosing what you want to take into account here.

g wanted that seed--badly. he left without it. we were told by ss g could not win. g was humiliated in asgard at the end and lost ss. he had a choice and could have continued. the reason he didn't was the seed was gone BUT he was given many other reasons to fight on. he didn't. not that hard imo.