Margaret Thatcher is Dead

Started by Symmetric Chaos5 pages

Margaret Thatcher is Dead

Conservatism has lost an iconic figure. Some people are extremely happy about this (all of them, where I live) but I wasn't around while she was in power. To me she's been more a symbol of powerful leadership than anything else.

"It is not the creation of wealth that is wrong but love of money for its own sake. The spiritual dimension comes in deciding what one does with the wealth. How could we respond to the many calls for help, or invest for the future, or support the wonderful artists and craftsmen whose work also glorifies God, unless we had first worked hard and used our talents to create the necessary wealth?" - Opening of the 1988 General Assembly of the Church of Scotland

Some loved her. Some called her a Tyrant.

Me?

She was just an old lady with a familiar sounding name.

American Ignorance at work.

I certainly don't agree with everything she did but she is a perfect example of a strong woman making it. I find it odd that some people won't recognize women in power or respect them unless the person agrees with them ideologically.

Originally posted by Cyner
I certainly don't agree with everything she did but she is a perfect example of a strong woman making it. I find it odd that some people won't recognize women in power or respect them unless the person agrees with them ideologically.

People do the same for men.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
People do the same for men.

true enough.

There are just a lot of people who yell for equality or for particular recognition for women in politics but whatever "side" they are on, refuse to respect the other "side".

Originally posted by Cyner
I find it odd that some people won't recognize women in power or respect them unless the person agrees with them ideologically.

Why should I respect a person for doing things I consider bad?

I think the other thread had more potential for fun.

Originally posted by Bardock42
I think the other thread had more potential for fun.

Mine has a quote 313

Let us never forget her calling Mandela a terrorist, the destruction of our manufacturing industry, banking deregulations, the privatisation of North Seas Oil, her support of Apartheid in South Africa, the troubles in Northern Ireland which she prolonged, her friendships with Pinochet and Hussein, today's housing crisis, today's benefit crisis, today's banking crisis and let's not forget that it was her government that started putting people on incapacity benefit rather than register them as unemployed and also her decision that she could live with 2-3 million unemployed people in her country, the legacy of which we are still living with today. In fact, most of the problems we suffer from today stem from the fact that she was so fundamentally wrong. Also, if they hold her funeral on the same day as the Hillsborough disaster, there will be rioting the likes of which this planet has yet to bear witness to, I know a lot of people who would consider themselves to not be responsible for their actions if that happened, David Cameron, you have been warned!

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Why should I respect a person for doing things I consider bad?

Because respect is an important step to humanization. Without recognizing the feats of others we don't agree with, we set them up to be dehumanized, demonized, some enemy that is hated and reviled. Instead of normal human beings that just view the world differently, and strive toward that goal. If you disagree with that person you should be striving as they do for your cause, not helping to dehumanize them.

Originally posted by Cyner
Because respect is an important step to humanization. Without recognizing the feats of others we don't agree with, we set them up to be dehumanized, demonized, some enemy that is hated and reviled. Instead of normal human beings that just view the world differently, and strive toward that goal.

Arguably we should give people a base level of respect simply for being human. Thatcher also deserves/deserved respect for the authority of her position, even if only from a practical standpoint for the anarchists among us. There are any number of things about Thatcher to respect but she's always going to lose a degree of respect because I find a lot of her beliefs distasteful and many of her actions harmful.

We can put this another way: You want me to respect everyone. Okay, but now that baseline level of respect doesn't mean anything. What matters is if I respect a person more or less than normal.

I'm also not sure exactly what kind of remarks you're reacting to. There's no one out there who thinks Thatcher didn't have feats just people who say "that feat was a bad thing".

Originally posted by Cyner
If you disagree with that person you should be striving as they do for your cause, not helping to dehumanize them.

Dehumanizing my enemies does help further my cause.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
Dehumanizing my enemies does help further my cause.

I suppose it helps everyone's cause. You can sharply divide a populous even if most of their ideas are very similar just by demonizing one set of people. I just don't think it's healthy socially.

The British female Reagan.

Here's some photos of Thatcher will her pals

So that's her with Augusto Pinochet. Genocidal dictator of Chile. Robert Mugabe, genocidal dictator of Zimbabwe and Jimmy Savile. Britain's worst mass offending paedophile.

As a working class Scot, I couldn't be happier that this evil, vile woman is finally dead and gone.

Originally posted by jaden101
Jimmy Savile. Britain's worst mass offending paedophile.

If you knew in 1981 that Savile was a pedophile you should have told someone.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If you knew in 1981 that Savile was a pedophile you should have told someone.

People have suspected since the 60's. iirc.

Originally posted by jaden101
Here's some photos of Thatcher will her pals

So that's her with Augusto Pinochet. Genocidal dictator of Chile. Robert Mugabe, genocidal dictator of Zimbabwe and Jimmy Savile. Britain's worst mass offending paedophile.

As a working class Scot, I couldn't be happier that this evil, vile woman is finally dead and gone.

Well here is a lot of ignorance at work.

Pinochet- fair enough, that was always an unpleasant bit of UK politics, but every leader has those.

Using Saville is just completely ridiculous, obviously.

As for Mugabe- this is a perspective loss. People forget that before he became the figure he is now, Mugabe was regarded as a liberating hero for Africa, a kind of smaller version of Mandela, certainly better than what he replaced and quite the darling of the liberal left. It was a long time before he turned out to be completely nuts.

Meanwhile, people talk about other things of Thatcher as if they are incontrovertible. They talk aboiut destroying manufacturing, but don;t consider that it was dying anyway. What is undeniable is that the UK hugely increased in prosperity and influence under Thatcher, she made a huge impact on the world stage and was one of the primary movers in brining an end to the Cold War via her relationship with Gorbachev. She was so respected on the world stage that she formed part of US policy decisions and was feted in the USSR. She destroyed the militant union movement- but the public wanted that. She changed politics as we know it, and Labour reformed itself in response to Thatcher.

The fact is, some elements of the left just cannot stand that Thatcher was a very successful leader, almost certainly to be remembered as Britain's greatest post-war 20th century Prime Minister. Heck, look at the tributes coming in from the Labour party even now- everyone recognises that, love her or hate her, she was an immensely impressive and effective politician, and not some kind of evil demon. You just don't win three successive elections by being the person some people want to make her out to be.

And before you take this as evidence of my Thatcherism- god no. Her views about the relationship between society and family were absolutely poisonous and thank god that view has been killed off, and her administration has alarmingly homophobic also (V for Vendetta was in part a response to Thatcherite policy on homosexuals). I prefer Blair to Thatcher. But if you try to argue that she was pure evil and a net negative to the nation, your perspective is completely broken.

Originally posted by jaden101
I couldn't be happier that this evil, vile woman is finally dead and gone.

So...did you like her or not? Bit unclear...

Great news indeed. Hope she suffered.

Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
We can put this another way: You want me to respect everyone. Okay, but now that baseline level of respect doesn't mean anything.

It means you're not a jerk, so it does mean something.

Got you.