Originally posted by jaden101And?
Here's some photos of Thatcher will her palsSo that's her with Augusto Pinochet. Genocidal dictator of Chile. Robert Mugabe, genocidal dictator of Zimbabwe and Jimmy Savile. Britain's worst mass offending paedophile.
As a working class Scot, I couldn't be happier that this evil, vile woman is finally dead and gone.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well here is a lot of ignorance at work.Pinochet- fair enough, that was always an unpleasant bit of UK politics, but every leader has those.
Using Saville is just completely ridiculous, obviously.
As for Mugabe- this is a perspective loss. People forget that before he became the figure he is now, Mugabe was regarded as a liberating hero for Africa, a kind of smaller version of Mandela, certainly better than what he replaced and quite the darling of the liberal left. It was a long time before he turned out to be completely nuts.
Meanwhile, people talk about other things of Thatcher as if they are incontrovertible. They talk aboiut destroying manufacturing, but don;t consider that it was dying anyway. What is undeniable is that the UK hugely increased in prosperity and influence under Thatcher, she made a huge impact on the world stage and was one of the primary movers in brining an end to the Cold War via her relationship with Gorbachev. She was so respected on the world stage that she formed part of US policy decisions and was feted in the USSR. She destroyed the militant union movement- but the public wanted that. She changed politics as we know it, and Labour reformed itself in response to Thatcher.
The fact is, some elements of the left just cannot stand that Thatcher was a very successful leader, almost certainly to be remembered as Britain's greatest post-war 20th century Prime Minister. Heck, look at the tributes coming in from the Labour party even now- everyone recognises that, love her or hate her, she was an immensely impressive and effective politician, and not some kind of evil demon. You just don't win three successive elections by being the person some people want to make her out to be.
And before you take this as evidence of my Thatcherism- god no. Her views about the relationship between society and family were absolutely poisonous and thank god that view has been killed off, and her administration has alarmingly homophobic also (V for Vendetta was in part a response to Thatcherite policy on homosexuals). I prefer Blair to Thatcher. But if you try to argue that she was pure evil and a net negative to the nation, your perspective is completely broken.
Yawn. You're boring and your arguments are rubbish.
1. It wasn't just a bad bit of politics. She considered him to be a personal friend.
2. Rumours about Savile had been circulating the BBC for decades. Given that she was head of a government with more than a half decent intelligence service I'm sure she could've and probably did confirm whether those rumours were true. All of which I'm sure will come out in the wash.
3. This isn't just about the politics of the time. This is about blatant right and wrong. She supported a south African apartheid regime and denounced Mandela as a terrorist. we're talking 15-20years after the civil rights movement he America and a British leader was still propagating segregation based on skin colour.
4. I have no problem with the way she dealt with the cold war or the Falklands
5. I'm old enough to remember what her policies did even after she left office. The Timex strikes took place 100 from my front door and would've been the final destruction of trade unionism had they succeeded as it revolved around a company point blank refusing to negotiate with the unions. If this policy of hers was as successful as she wanted it to be then wages across Britain would be far lower than they are now and the disparity of wealth between rich and poor would be far worse.
6. She spoke of the love of money and greed being the problem, not wealth itself yet her policies created an entire generation of greedy, selfish traders and bankers that directly links to her policy of deregulation of financial and stock market trading. Look where that's got the UK and the world now. Banks that are 'too big to fail' and that can hold governments to ransom for so-called bailout money.
7. Yes I acknowledge that Britain was broke and needed serious policies to fix it but the wholesale destruction of entire skilled industries was swinging the pendulum too far. Modernization was needed and it may have resulted in most industrie shedding jobs in favour of automation which I've no doubt would've been opposed to militant unions but it was achievable and preferable to the complete destruction of steel and coal industries especially when you look at how much money is to be made from exporting coal to developing countries now. Money the country could sorely use in this economy but now we don't have the skills or the infrastructure to utilise it cos of her.
8. Let the joyous news be spread...
Originally posted by Symmetric Chaos
If you knew in 1981 that Savile was a pedophile you should have told someone.
I was 2. So if I knew I probably wouldn't remember and so that's why I don't need a therapist now.
2. I wasn't the head of a government with an intelligence service that vets everyone who has anything to do with meeting the PM. Given that people at the BBC knew about it then I'm sure people in government definitely did but then given that members of her own party were on the now famous 'Schofield's list' I'm sure it wouldn't have been in her best interests to pull that particular loose thread.
I'm from the northern region of England. I hate her because she's a conservative and treated like the queen of conservatism due to her obviously radical right wing policies of, to put it simply, money to those with money because they have money and deserve more money for the money they've earned using money they already have.
Not really the kind of person that thinks her dying somehow makes up for her policies, nor do I find her personally responsible for political shifts and the economic status of the world in the last 34 years. Just waiting for the jokes.
George certainly doesn't like her one bit, not one bit at all.
Did learn a few new things about her, like her endorsement of Pol Pot. So thanks for the read.
Another, more balanced, but brilliant article on Thatcher. From, of all people,comedian Russell Brand
http://m.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/russell-brand-margaret-thatcher
The blunt, pathetic reality today is that a little old lady has died, who in the winter of her life had to water roses alone under police supervision. If you behave like there's no such thing as society, in the end, there isn't.
Originally posted by Bardock42
What are you even talking about?
http://briandeer.com/social/thatcher-society.htm
afaik it is one of her better known statements.