Sentry vs. Goku

Originally posted by Robtard
Couple things.

Piccolo did not use the Special Beam Cannon he used on Raditz to destroy the moon. It's a visibly different attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuaqRVvm6tI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSJ-Z1BXMQc

The moon in the BD world is impossibly weak, as Master Roshi with a PL of around 140-180 (28-36 farmers) was able to bust it. Unless you think the power of 28-36 farmers (ep 1 DBZ) can obliterate a normal moon.

What are you talking about? When did i say anything about the Special Beam canon (which is more powerful than the moon busting attack).

Originally posted by BloodRain
Now explain everything you left out.

Why does it happen only over a couple hundred feet, and why is a couple hundred foot 'combat area' when it's so large, but longer than that must be different?

Why is the speed so drastic. Remember, you're claiming his combat flight speed is at /least/ Mach 1,000,000 when travel flight speed is only Mach 1,000.

Now, I've disregarded your 'takes too much ki' point. Reason being that this is a character who has the ki to fire off planet busters, while doing 'ftl combat speed' for an hour.. but flying at full speed (when he really need a to) for only a couple seconds takes too much? Only reason that could makes sense is if they choose not to.

Well there's also if for some reason it takes too much ki to move that fast for a few seconds.....

...which is countered by the fact that the 'combat speed flight' can last a minute or longer, as proven in fights where they appear invisible to all but the highly trained. That's proof that they can keep up this speed constantly for a good while.

So explain.

I guess the answer to your question is plot and you are looking to far into things that isn't real and obviously didn't take much thought. Akira didn't sit down and say...well, since Goku combat this fast, let me have him make it to point A in less than a second. I'm pretty sure he thought more on the plot side which is the reason DBZ characters are able to slap blasts out if the air that can make it out of orbit in less time it would take to blink your eye...and I'm talking about the earlier parts of DBZ.

But your question is like me asking "since Superman can fly FTL in space, why did he have such a hard time catching these bullets"? Plot.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/3033915-1223138127-super_zpsb64c3680.jpg.html
http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/3033926-3112536032-super_zps0471684b.jpg.html

Like I've stated before and I am going to keep saying until it digs deep into your skull...it's obvious DBZ characters combat speed is greater than their flight speed.

Originally posted by StealthRanger
To be fair, pretty sure the Roshi feat is an outlier as nothing of that level is replicated until the Saiyan Saga

And, well, power levels are bullshit

Who failed to destroy a moon and again, are we really arguing collateral damage here? Is that the furthest Anime debaters Minds can process? Do you all not understand the difference between a person's power level vs collateral damage (not just DBZ). Where in DBZ was it stated that the more destructive your blast is means you are more powerful than a character that never displayed such ft? Do you honestly think First Form Frieza is more powerful than fat Buu because he destroyed a planet with his finger? Are you saying that Piccolo with a power level of 350 is more powerful than Nappa?

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
Yeah, he obviously can react to the blast. It's a slow attack.

But have they taken WORSE before? That's what I'm asking.

Like I said, you can't compare a blast to a punch. Two different types of attacks.

Also, none of this changes the fact that neither Goku or Vegeta's blast actually destroyed Earth.

So we agree that he can react to a blast that can instantly make it to the moon? Good.

No...they have not DIED from worse and on average...the showings i brought up are more consistent.

Where in my scans did it say anything about a punch? You all are the ones that debate using collateral damage. With that said, per Superman's on admission, no one in the entire Universe can destroy a planet minus ONE PERSON which means, using your (don't even want to say it) way of debating, Saiyan Saga Vegeta is more powerful than anyone in the Universe of DCNU if we are basing it off of collateral damage.

Why in the world would it destroy Earth when Goku PREVENTED IT FROM HAPPENING? Akira outright states in the story that Vegeta blast would have destroyed earth. If you are going to sit here and lowball and wine AND disregard everything involving DBZ, then, do not reply to my posts. Fond someone else to discuss this topic with. We understand that a group of you want to put a cap on these characters but disregarding fts and denying showings is a big sign of hypocrisy.

Originally posted by carver9
I guess the answer to your question is plot and you are looking to far into things that isn't real and obviously didn't take much thought. Akira didn't sit down and say...well, since Goku combat this fast, let me have him make it to point A in less than a second. I'm pretty sure he thought more on the plot side which is the reason DBZ characters are able to slap blasts out if the air that can make it out of orbit in less time it would take to blink your eye...and I'm talking about the earlier parts of DBZ.

But your question is like me asking "since Superman can fly FTL in space, why did he have such a hard time catching these bullets"? Plot.

http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/3033915-1223138127-super_zpsb64c3680.jpg.html
http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/carver9/media/3033926-3112536032-super_zps0471684b.jpg.html

Like I've stated before and I am going to keep saying until it digs deep into your skull...it's obvious DBZ characters combat speed is greater than their flight speed.

Your own opinion is your evidence?

To reiterate, you believe it's obvious so that must mean it's a canon written fact.. and when it comes to a counter-response all you have is a cop-out basically saying "I dunno, guess he didn't think about it? But he definitely thought about what I'm backing. I totally see it". Not gonna fly. That 'author is lazy' shit only works when minor details are left out, not to cover up the entire argument.

Do you have legit proof? Or do you have providable evidence as to why the guy with planet busting ki who can zip around a couple hundred feet for a few minuites non-stop.. at MFTL speeds.. cannot do the same thing but in a straight line.. as that would waste ki..?

Originally posted by BloodRain
That's your evidence?

Your own opinion is your evidence?

To reiterate, you believe it's obvious so that must mean it's a canon written fact.. and when it comes to a counter-response all you have is a cop-out basically saying "I dunno, guess he didn't think about it? But he definitely thought about what I'm backing. I totally see it". Not gonna fly. That 'author is lazy' shit only works when minor details are left out, not to cover up the entire argument.

Do you have legit proof? Or do you have providable evidence as to why the guy with planet busting ki who can zip around a couple hundred feet for a few minuites non-stop.. at MFTL speeds.. cannot do the same thing but in a straight line.. as that would waste ki..?

So you can show me DBZ characters long distance flying around at invisible speeds? Scan.

First off, you don't prove your case by telling the opposition to prove another case. Prove your own case that was asked.

Second, that post can be covered, with an admitted glancing thought, by fast things being easier to track the more they move. Not to mention, what counts as long distance? Generally melee distance is 10ft, mid range is within 50ft, and above that you get long range. Seeing as DB combat areas are easily over 100ft...

Third, I can think of two scans from the same place: Final Freeza after the death beam, following with Goku's approach.

Do me a favour and don't focus on the third and ignore the first two.

Originally posted by BloodRain
First off, you don't prove your case by telling the opposition to prove another case. Prove your own case that was asked.

Second, that post can be covered, with an admitted glancing thought, by fast things being easier to track the more they move. Not to mention, what counts as long distance? Generally melee distance is 10ft, mid range is within 50ft, and above that you get long range. Seeing as DB combat areas are easily over 100ft...

Third, I can think of two scans from the same place: Final Freeza after the death beam, following with Goku's approach.

Do me a favour and don't focus on the third and ignore the first two.

I asked for proof first and you came with questions. I'm asking you to prove that final tournament Goku from regular Dragonball can fly faster than a bullet...something that his reflexes can catch in his sleep. Scans.

:l

The whole point of this was me asking you to prove the combat speed. Page 4, the initial question is posed.

I will proceed to give a shit about your requests when you finally get round to answering mine.

To single it out, focus on this;
"Not to mention, what counts as long distance? Generally melee distance is 10ft, mid range is within 50ft, and above that you get long range. Seeing as DB combat areas are easily over 100ft..."

Originally posted by BloodRain
:l

The whole point of this was me asking you to prove the combat speed. Page 4, the initial question is posed.

I will proceed to give a shit about your requests when you finally get round to answering mine.

To single it out, focus on this;
"Not to mention, what counts as long distance? Generally melee distance is 10ft, mid range is within 50ft, and above that you get long range. Seeing as DB combat areas are easily over 100ft..."

You'll have to give me an example first. What scene can I use to determine why his flight speed isn't equal to his combat speed?

I'm not doing your work for you.

Burden of proof. You're the one that backs this argument, so in order foe me to provide counter-evidence you'll need to actually offer up evidence.

Not a theory based on your opinions of events. Believe me you don't want to open that door.. Can you back up your argument now?

Originally posted by BloodRain
I'm not doing your work for you.

Burden of proof. You're the one that backs this argument, so in order foe me to provide counter-evidence you'll need to actually offer up evidence.

Not a theory based on your opinions of events. Believe me you don't want to open that door.. Can you back up your argument now?

I disagree but I will give you an example. Goku flew through snake way...heading back home to take on Nappa, etc and he was visible the entire time. When he arrived and fought Nappa, Goku was nearly impossible to detect by Krillin and Gohan (and Nappa at some point as well). Now show me Goku flying so fast that he is invisible to the necked eye.

:l what was that?

Not that that gave much, with bonus hilerity in asking me to show scans without showing anything yourself, it gets insta-matched by Nimbus doing to those three 'exactly' what you amounts to proof of Goku's combat speed..

..unless the flying cloud does have combat speed.

Originally posted by carver9
So we agree that he can react to a blast that can instantly make it to the moon? Good.

The reason he can react to it is because the attack is slow...so no, it's not instant.

Originally posted by carver9
No...they have not DIED from worse and on average...the showings i brought up are more consistent.

I didn't say anything about being killed. I asked have they TAKEN anything worse? It doesn't matter how consistent it is.

Originally posted by carver9
Where in my scans did it say anything about a punch? You all are the ones that debate using collateral damage. With that said, per Superman's on admission, no one in the entire Universe can destroy a planet minus ONE PERSON which means, using your (don't even want to say it) way of debating, Saiyan Saga Vegeta is more powerful than anyone in the Universe of DCNU if we are basing it off of collateral damage.

You mentioned Superman getting hit by a punch and posted one of the scans showing that. I don't think anybody was ever comparing a punch to a blast in the first place.

Originally posted by carver9
Why in the world would it destroy Earth when Goku PREVENTED IT FROM HAPPENING? Akira outright states in the story that Vegeta blast would have destroyed earth. If you are going to sit here and lowball and wine AND disregard everything involving DBZ, then, do not reply to my posts. Fond someone else to discuss this topic with. We understand that a group of you want to put a cap on these characters but disregarding fts and denying showings is a big sign of hypocrisy.

There is no showings of this. You admitted this yourself that it was stated. The point I'm trying to make is we don't know how it would destroy the Earth. It could take a long time or heck, he probably didn't even really have enough power to do it. The damage it does to a planet or the moon could be different from how it damages people, that doesn't suddenly proved they can take planet or moon busting attacks.

Originally posted by BloodRain
:l what was that?

Not that that gave much, with bonus hilerity in asking me to show scans without showing anything yourself, it gets insta-matched by Nimbus doing to those three 'exactly' what you amounts to proof of Goku's combat speed..

..unless the flying cloud does have combat speed.

When did Nimbus fly at invisible speeds?

Originally posted by carver9
What are you talking about? When did i say anything about the Special Beam canon (which is more powerful than the moon busting attack).

I was under the impression it was anime Piccolo here, hence by posting links to the anime. Guess it's both.

DBZ moon is still made of sauce that is weak.

Originally posted by Robtard
I was under the impression it was anime Piccolo here, hence by posting links to the anime. Guess it's both.

DBZ moon is still made of sauce that is weak.

Prove that DBZ moon is made out of sauce that is weak (whatever that means).

Originally posted by Bro SMASH
The reason he can react to it is because the attack is slow...so no, it's not instant.

I didn't say anything about being killed. I asked have they TAKEN anything worse? It doesn't matter how consistent it is.

You mentioned Superman getting hit by a punch and posted one of the scans showing that. I don't think anybody was ever comparing a punch to a blast in the first place.

There is no showings of this. You admitted this yourself that it was stated. The point I'm trying to make is we don't know how it would destroy the Earth. It could take a long time or heck, he probably didn't even really have enough power to do it. The damage it does to a planet or the moon could be different from how it damages people, that doesn't suddenly proved they can take planet or moon busting attacks.

So he can react to a blast that made it to the moon instantly (as shown per my scan above)? Why is it slow? Prove that the attack is slow.

WTF? It does have something to do with consistency because there is a such thing as high showings you know. Hulk was once choked out by a snake...does that mean that we base Hulks durability off of that showing? Thor got killed by a bullet. Do we use that showing as his norm or do we go by his CONSISTENCY of tanking bullets? You're not good at this...no insult at all but it's kind of difficult debating against someone that make their own rules and see things different.

The post you responded to didn't have a thing to do with Superman withstanding a punch. I posted Superman saying "in DC universe only ONE PERSON can destroy a planet". It didn't say if it was physical or not. It was an open comment. I then say since YOU base your argument clearly on collateral damage...that means that someone like First form Frieza is more powerful than anyone in the entirety of DC universe. Riiiiiiiiggghhht?

It was stated to be a planet buster. That's clearly what Akira intentions was. Then...since we are using Anime here...that back my case even further since in the ANIME Vegeta destroyed a planet with 2 fingers. With that said, we are done here. Vegeta in the Manga during the Saiyan Saga was a planet buster but I no longer need to argue this since the Anime here is canon. Goku deflected a planet buster with his own planet buster and hit Vegeta with it (and he tanked it).

it did not do so 'instantly' if it did so instantly it would cross the universe instantly, since it's speed would be infinite. It isn't.

Originally posted by carver9
So he can react to a blast that made it to the moon instantly (as shown per my scan above)? Why is it slow? Prove that the attack is slow.

WTF? It does have something to do with consistency because there is a such thing as high showings you know. Hulk was once choked out by a snake...does that mean that we base Hulks durability off of that showing? Thor got killed by a bullet. Do we use that showing as his norm or do we go by his CONSISTENCY of tanking bullets? You're not good at this...no insult at all but it's kind of difficult debating against someone that make their own rules and see things different.

The post you responded to didn't have a thing to do with Superman withstanding a punch. I posted Superman saying "in DC universe only ONE PERSON can destroy a planet". It didn't say if it was physical or not. It was an open comment. I then say since YOU base your argument clearly on collateral damage...that means that someone like First form Frieza is more powerful than anyone in the entirety of DC universe. Riiiiiiiiggghhht?

It was stated to be a planet buster. That's clearly what Akira intentions was. Then...since we are using Anime here...that back my case even further since in the ANIME Vegeta destroyed a planet with 2 fingers. With that said, we are done here. Vegeta in the Manga during the Saiyan Saga was a planet buster but I no longer need to argue this since the Anime here is canon. Goku deflected a planet buster with his own planet buster and hit Vegeta with it (and he tanked it).

1. Except the scan didn't show that it was instant. That's just something you're claiming.

2. You know, instead of trying to use the consistency excuse to work in your favor, why not just go by the worst punishment they took? And even if you do want to go by consistency, then you'd have to admit that DBZ characters can't take moon/planet-busting attacks, as they've never done it consistently. Of course, it's not like there was any proof that the blast Piccolo hit Raditz with was moon-busting anyway and yet, you STILL like to claim it is.

3. Okay, which scan are you referring to? Because I must have overlooked it.