Savage Opress vs. Obi-Wan Kenobi

People are making it sound as if I'm putting Opress above Kenobi in terms of swordmanship. facepalm

Originally posted by Intrepid37
In no category does Kenobi beat Opress [b]handily. [/B]

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Firstly it was over a miunte, which is quite long by SW standards. Second where are you getting he was just "surviving?" If you read Shadow Conspiracy it's made clear that was quite a tough fight for both combatants.

And by the end, if anyone had the edge it was actually Kenobi with that kick that put Maul on his knees for a second.

The first fight was another stalemate until Maul used Dun Moch to enrage Kenobi putting him off balance. (Brilliant scene).

I am actually a much bigger Maul fan than Kenobi, but there's really no denying that Kenobi and Maul are being shown to be peers now.

Maul has won one and stalemated the other, both while not wanting to kill Kenobi.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
You also can't overlook how Kenobi has been shown to take it easy on Ventress. "You'll have to do better than that my darling.." is hardly the statement of a guy out for blood.

That bit of flirtation/chemistry between them has always been clear.

As he did with Maul ''your legs make you look taller''?

No.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well we agree an all out will be a split.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
In a pure sword fight your right.

I'm just giving Opress a minority of wins due to his beastly Tk. He's ragdolled Kenobi in the past and overpowered Adi Gallia with it too.

Ah, I thought you were saying he would take half the wins.

Ignoring Opress's domination of Obi-Wan and Anakin and focusing solely on Obi-Wan's turnabout against Maul and Opress frankly smacks of fanboy tactics.

Shadow Conspiracy notes that the confining terrain played to Obi-Wan's advantage (as it did to Savage's advantage when he fought Anakin and Obi-Wan on Dooku's dreadnought).

The recently released Clone Wars episode guide outright confirms that Savage has grown more powerful since his days as Dooku's flunkie.

That Obi-Wan performed so well was clearly the result of contextual factors. He's no Dooku; he's not fit to polish the shoe Sidious would effortlessly put up his ass.

Savage has gone toe-to-toe with Plo Koon, Adi Gallia, Ventress, and Anakin. You can hand wave that all you like for the purposes of aggrandizing Obi-Wan, but I'm not.

An all out fight with them is gonna be close: Obi-Wan's superior skill and experience versus Savage's greater power and ferocity.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
Ignoring Opress's domination of Obi-Wan and Anakin and focusing solely on Obi-Wan's turnabout against Maul and Opress frankly smacks of fanboy tactics.

When did Opress "dominate" Anakin and Kenobi?

He held his own, sure. But in both fights he ended up fleeing. By contrast Kenobi has dominated Savage. And there is a sense of parity between Kenobi and Maul, the same Maul who managed to also dominate Savage.

Yes, I don't see Kenobi dominating Savage in a typical fight. But he certainly seems to hold a significant advantage.

When I say dominate, I mean it literally. He had the advantage; the Jedi (even Anakin!) were on he backfoot, giving ground. He floored them both twice, as I recall: to say nothing of their humiliation on Toydaria.

And while I agree that Maul and likely Obi-Wan are above Savage, I have never taken Maul's quick defeat of Savage to be reflective of a general contest between the two precisely because it is incongruent with both characters' abilities.

Originally posted by ares834
there is a sense of parity between Kenobi and Maul, the same Maul who managed to also dominate Savage.

Yes, I don't see Kenobi dominating Savage in a typical fight. But he certainly seems to hold a significant advantage.

👆

Kenobi hasn't cybernetic legs that ables him to nullify Opress' strength either.

DP, Sorry I didn't address your earlier post, but I'm on my iPhone and so have to make responses as general as possible due to format limitations.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Kenobi hasn't cybernetic legs that ables him to nullify Opress' strength either.

Ares isn't claiming that Kenobi would dominate Opress to the same extent Maul did.

Just that he's on par with Maul who is clearly above Opress/Ventress.

Originally posted by The_Tempest
When I say dominate, I mean it literally. He had the advantage; the Jedi (even Anakin!) were on he backfoot, giving ground. He floored them both twice, as I recall: to say nothing of their humiliation on Toydaria.

Yes, he knocked them both down twice yet he never seemed to truly have the advantage and if he did, it was slight. Neither of the Jedi seemed to be truly troubled by him nor were they any worse for wear after the duel. Furthermore, in the first fight he fled from them.

@POWER, that's an A>B>C argument. No one in their right mind would believe Maul would beat Opress as swiftly he did should they fight again in open terrain.

Originally posted by Intrepid37

lol

As he did with Maul ''your legs make you look taller''?

No.

If he called Maul "My darling" then it would be comparable. Besides that wasn't during combat. It was while he was defensless, hitting Maul where it hurts (the legs he removed himself).

And I think most would agree Kenobi doesn't generally go all out on Ventress. But then it's rare when he goes All-Out anyway. But I can bet he does against Maul.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
@POWER, that's an A>B>C argument. No one in their right mind would believe Maul would beat Opress as swiftly he did should they fight again in open terrain.

I know that. But similarly no one in their right mind believes Maul wouldn't take a large majority against Opress.

Originally posted by ares834
Yes, he knocked them both down twice yet he never seemed to truly have the advantage and if he did, it was slight. Neither of the Jedi seemed to be truly troubled by him nor were they any worse for wear after the duel. Furthermore, in the first fight he fled from them.

Yes but then there was 2 of them. Having the advantage against both of them twice is pretty impressive.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
If he called Maul "My darling" then it would be comparable. Besides that wasn't during combat. It was while he was defensless, hitting Maul where it hurts (the legs he removed himself).

And I think most would agree Kenobi doesn't generally go all out on Ventress. But then it's rare when he goes All-Out anyway. But I can bet he does against Maul.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I know that. But similarly no one in their right mind believes Maul wouldn't take a large majority against Opress.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Oh come on. He also says ''Throwing in with pirates now, oh how the mighty Sith have fallen.

He hardly had time while fighting Maul to start taking the mick out of his combat abilities.

He's basically never fought Ventress (in TCW at least) with the same intensity he fights Maul.

Its pretty obvious that he has a thing for Ventress.

Its also pretty obvious that he borderline HATES Maul.

👆

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not really.

He got a kick in. And created an opening for himself.

That was convincing.

Kenobi is slightly above Maul, let alone his apprentice.

Prove it.

Injuring Mace Windu>>Anything Savage has done.

Also the stupid comparison of Savage vs. Kenobi and Skywalker is just that, stupid.

Kenobi took off Savage's arm and broke his leg. He was winning and force them into retreat.

That is not the same as Savage getting off a Force Push or some shit like that. Filoni himself states that Maul and Savage lose. The length people will go into denial about this is obscene.

I agree with Mizukage. Kenobi was able to break Opress' leg and slice his arm off, while at the same time fending Maul off all within a narrow corridor. And in the end it was the brothers running from Kenobi.

That to me is all that is needed to prove that Kenobi can beat Opress in a 1 on 1, in any one of these situations. At least 9/10 times.

Yeah Savage has impressive force feats and physical strength, but Kenobi's skill and experience would be too much for him.

Originally posted by mnat801
I agree with Mizukage. Kenobi was able to break Opress' leg and slice his arm off, while at the same time fending Maul off all within a narrow corridor. And in the end it was the brothers running from Kenobi.

That to me is all that is needed to prove that Kenobi can beat Opress in a 1 on 1, in any one of these situations. At least 9/10 times.

Yeah Savage has impressive force feats and physical strength, but Kenobi's skill and experience would be too much for him.