You Vs Villains II

Originally posted by MF DELPH
She's dead.

Her normal routine doesn't have to be normal. Her making her sound like an idiot. Like she is just going to walk down to starbucks like any other joe going into the office not worried about someone attacking her.

She's the freaking Black Widow she suspects everyone.

Just because she doesn't know who you are doesn't mean she doesn't have her head on the swivel everyday.

more importantly, what part of her super spy training is going to tell her I'm in a window 600m away?

Originally posted by 753
op says she has a routine and we know it. how would she know I'd be coming exactly?

She doesn't have to know YOU are coming. She is a super secret spy with some od the deadliest enemies on the planet you honestly believe her guard is ever down?

You're giving Black Widow way too much credit and yourself zero. You have complete anonymity, she's completely oblivious to the fact you're a threat, and you are YOU, which means you know everything about her as it's you, the comic book reader, in this scenario, meaning you know everything she is capable of, and to her you're just a random civilian. I don't know why you're giving her this cosmic battlefield awareness where the scenario already states she's oblivious to your threat. Assuming you don't blow the cover of being completely anonymous and unknown it shouldn't be that hard.

I could walk up and shoot Bruce Wayne on the street as he'd assume I'm just some random civilian and not a comic book reading would be assassin acting out a comic book site hypothetical snuff scenario.

Originally posted by Newjak
All it says is she follows her normal routine? She doesn't have a normal routine really. She has a civilian cover but that doesn't mean she isn't always prepared for some trying to take her down or that you can plan her leaving her house at exactly 1:00 PM everyday.

She doesn't have to know YOU are coming. She is a super secret spy with some od the deadliest enemies on the planet you honestly believe her guard is ever down?

This is supposed to be real world conditions right? Even if she goes through all the measures you speak of, it is in the OP that we know her routine and she is oblivious to us. It really seems that you're the only one arguing hard for BW. I say she gets blown away.

Don't know if anyone can make it past 1 unless you are a good sniper and learning how to snipe (being good at it) doesn't take a week to learn.

Originally posted by Oliver North
more importantly, what part of her super spy training is going to tell her I'm in a window 600m away?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
You're giving Black Widow way too much credit and yourself zero. You have complete anonymity, she's completely oblivious to the fact you're a threat, and you are YOU, which means you know everything about her as it's [b]you, the comic book reader, in this scenario, meaning you know everything she is capable of, and to her you're just a random civilian. I don't know why you're giving her this cosmic battlefield awareness where the scenario already states she's oblivious to your threat. Assuming you don't blow the cover of being completely anonymous and unknown it shouldn't be that hard.

I could walk up and shoot Bruce Wayne on the street as he'd assume I'm just some random civilian and not a comic book reading would be assassin acting out a comic book site hypothetical snuff scenario. [/B]

Originally posted by Raisen
This is supposed to be real world conditions right? Even if she goes through all the measures you speak of, it is in the OP that we know her routine and she is oblivious to us. It really seems that you're the only one arguing hard for BW. I say she gets blown away.

If we are using Black Widow from the comicbooks it doesn't matter if she doesn't know who you are, she is constantly on the lookout for threats. If she recognizes you as a threat it doesn't matter if she doesn't know who you are.

And just because you know her 'routine' doesn't mean you know what that routine consists of. It could mean she has all her stuff delivered to her or that she is gone 7 days out of the week. Or that her routine is basically something different everyday.

If the OP designs a scenario where Black Widow is forced to do stupid stuff that will get her killed then yes you can win. If this the actual Black Widow no one is getting past Scenario 1 no matter how good they think they are.

Originally posted by Newjak
You assume you could get to Bruce Wayne without him knowing you already have a gun. It being Batman means he would know you already have a gun. It's the way those types of comic book characters operate they just know because they are that skilled that they can pick up any minor detail.

And this right here is why your opinion on this thread is severely flawed. You're granting these characters clairvoyance and complete almost supernatural battlefield awareness despite the OP explicitly stating the opposite, and despite the fact that this is NOT a plot driven comic book scenario. Batman would not know that any random civilian were armed, particularly in a scenario where it is specifically stated he (or in this case, Black Widow) is unaware of your threat.

Originally posted by Silent Master
I'd use a sniper rifle for round 1, I'm a decent shot, so it's got the best chance for success.

But your given no money just a knife and a gun. Unless you don't use your prep time to learn her route and whore yourself out to gather enough money to buy the rifle and ammo. Then if your crap shooting doesn't take her down (sniper rifles aren't easy to use successfully and being a decent shot isn't worth risking your life on) she is alerted and proceeds to push your shit in despite your peak stats thanks to her vicious training. Your dead.

Also did the OP say no PIS or CIS?

I quoted myself instead of editing and didn't even notice.. Geez.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
And this right here is why your opinion on this thread is severely flawed. You're granting these characters clairvoyance and complete almost supernatural battlefield awareness despite the OP explicitly stating the opposite, and despite the fact that this is NOT a plot driven comic book scenario. Batman would not know that any random civilian were armed, particularly in a scenario where it is specifically stated he (or in this case, Black Widow) is unaware of your threat.

They know because they have comic book intelligence.

Black Widow knew you were carrying a gun simply by the slight bulge you had somewhere.

She knew you were up to something by they way you glanced at her without even knowing you did. The way you were breathing. The cloths you were wearing.

It's what they do that's their feats.

If you take that way you're taking away her feats in which case you are no longer fighting Black Widow but a dumb downed version of her to make yourselves feel better.

The truth is no here possess the skill, knowledge, or know how to begin to take a on well trained comic book character like Black Widow. Anyone saying otherwise is deluding themselves.

Like I said in the comics they have been trained to know all these things that even if she doesn't know you they instantly know if you are a threat whether you want them to or not.

In a plotted scenario I'd grant you that. The OP says she's unaware, which means she's unaware, not she's aware in spite of what the OP states because she's Black Widow, which is your position. I highly doubt a random black guy in a Coogi polo drinking a chai tea frappe is going to cause her spider-sense to tingle. These characters walk around in public around faceless anonymous comic civilians all the time. She's oblivious, and she'd be dead.

With her being unaware that someone is trying to kill her, I'd say a sniper has a 50/50 chance of killing her.

What I think Newjak is trying to say is that once you're in her vicinity, in the area walking around that she'll see you and give you an ocular pat down. Like if she was in a donut shop and you walk through the door then her training will alert her to the door opening and just quickly seeing who's there and whatnot.

What I believe Delph is saying that it's unlikely for her to pinpoint him out when there's tons of civilians around and he's got the appearance and demeanor of just another ordinary guy. She doesn't know he wants to kill her, she doesn't know he's after her because there is no information on an immediate threat to her life.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
In a plotted scenario I'd grant you that. The OP says she's unaware, which means [b]she's unaware, not she's aware in spite of what the OP states because she's Black Widow, which is your position. I highly doubt a random black guy in a Coogi polo drinking a chai tea frappe is going to cause her spider-sense to tingle. These characters walk around in public around faceless anonymous comic civilians all the time. She's oblivious, and she'd be dead. [/B]

Once again the OP says that she is unaware of you. Not that she all of sudden became stupid or loses her feats.

She is always on the look out just because she doesn't know you're coming doesn't mean her guard isn't normally up.

And you might not think you're giving anything away but she would take one look at the random black guy in a Coogi polo drinking a chai tea frappe and know you're up to something. It's what she does. It's what comic book characters with her kind of training do.

Now if the OP is saying she is just oblivious to all potential danger and she's not on the look out for it, then she's not Black Widow, then you have the chance of actually killing her if you are going to ignore what she is trained to do.

Originally posted by Wei Phoenix
What I think Newjak is trying to say is that once you're in her vicinity, in the area walking around that she'll see you and give you an ocular pat down. Like if she was in a donut shop and you walk through the door then her training will alert her to the door opening and just quickly seeing who's there and whatnot.

What I believe Delph is saying that it's unlikely for her to pinpoint him out when there's tons of civilians around and he's got the appearance and demeanor of just another ordinary guy. She doesn't know he wants to kill her, she doesn't know he's after her because there is no information on an immediate threat to her life.

That's the only way you win in this scenario is if the OP is forcing the Black Widow not think and do what she does with everyone.

It's all 50:50. You're only going to get one shot. If you don't take her out she's going to know there' a threat, and if she sees you at multiple locations she's going to know you're tailing her. That kind of awareness is reasonable. To think that if she were standing in line at a grocery store or waiting on a street light to cross an intersection or any other typical action and I'm 7-10 feet away and essentially one of those faceless anoymous filler civilians drawn in a comic that she'd know my intentions before I acted is just ridiculous.

Originally posted by MF DELPH
To think that if she were standing in line at a grocery store or waiting on a street light to cross an intersection or any other typical action and I'm 7-10 feet away and essentially one of those faceless anonymous filler civilians drawn in a comic that she'd know my intentions before I acted is just ridiculous.

I like the idea of bombing the apartment under hers when she is on the toilet and picking her off with a high powered sniper rifle from some ways away but the scenario doesn't really give us that.
It says "here are some knives and a gun, watch the black widow and figure out how to kill her with this" later on money is even given for us to spend on god knows what so I assuming that we arent really given the means to get our hands on explosives and rifles and such. Just the knives and lint in our pockets and the gun oddly tucked into the back of our pants like some disposable thug because at this point that's all we are until we take out the Black Widow.

Same ppl who are arguing the OP says she is unaware and remain as such are also saying they can reach outside the given scenario and take her out as they please.

Am I missing something here?

Originally posted by MF DELPH
It's all 50:50. You're only going to get one shot. If you don't take her out she's going to know there' a threat, and if she sees you at multiple locations she's going to know you're tailing her. That kind of awareness is reasonable. To think that if she were standing in line at a grocery store or waiting on a street light to cross an intersection or any other typical action and I'm 7-10 feet away and essentially one of those faceless anoymous filler civilians drawn in a comic that she'd know my intentions before I acted is just ridiculous.

Or you could be in a building 600 yards away, waiting for her to walk into your range.