Lord Vitiate runs the gauntlet.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You should keep in mind that Yoda has manhandled ridiculous CIS ships

Not to overlook the fact that some Dark Councilors have served under the Sith Emperor who are capable of matching Nihilus in telekinetic abilities. Yes, Yoda is outgunned.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
and matched Sidious' lightning, and Sidious is, you know, the most powerful Sith Lord ever.

For example: Luceno thinks that Plagueis can defeat Sidious in single combat.

Q: Do you feel that, had it come to a contest of lightsabers or Force powers, Sidious would have prevailed anyway?

A: If it had come to a duel, I think Plagueis may have found a way to undermine his apprentice

Therefore, you cannot just parrot around an accolade awarded to Sidious which isn't exclusive to him anymore and tout that Yoda would handle other Sith Lords. In contrast to Sidious, Vitiate packs his own set of talents and their is no restriction about effectiveness of his talents vis-à-vis position of Sidious.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Anakin is, in my mind superior to the likes of Dooku and Mace and while he hasn't comparable force powers he hasn't been subdued by Dooku without the aid of Magnaguards. Vitiate is superior to Dooku in force powers, although not enough for me to see him destroying Anakin with complete ease. Ahsoka is another destraction.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Speed-wise, Anakin has leaved afterimages of his blades and been called ''perhaps the fastest Jedi in any generation'' so lightning should be avoided without trouble.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Anakin is just too fast for Vitiate in my opinion.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He crashed those transport ships in to each other; while a very impressive feat, I don't subscribe to the notion that only Yoda is capable of performing it. Vitiate, a Sith Lord touted to be supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, wouldn't have trouble replicating this feat or doing even better.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sidious have been promoted as the most powerful Sith Lord in history in (outdated) canonical sources. As the lore continues to expand, more Sith Lords have earned the same accolade (i.e. Plagueis and Vitiate). From real-world perspective, such accolades are promotion tactics; the awarded characters are to be regarded as the top dogs in the mythos. However, no (official) ranking of characters in terms of strength have ever been created; ever wondered why? Because different people have different perceptions; GL himself doesn't cares.

For example: Luceno thinks that Plagueis can defeat Sidious in single combat.

[B]Q: Do you feel that, had it come to a contest of lightsabers or Force powers, Sidious would have prevailed anyway?

A: If it had come to a duel, I think Plagueis may have found a way to undermine his apprentice

Therefore, you cannot just parrot around an accolade awarded to Sidious which isn't exclusive to him anymore and tout that Yoda would handle other Sith Lords. In contrast to Sidious, Vitiate packs his own set of talents and their is no restriction about effectiveness of his talents vis-à-vis position of Sidious. [/B]

As for the quote from Luceno, he was talking about the Sidious portrayed in Darth Plagueis who is logically weaker then a later RotS Sidious who managed to surpass Plagueis.

RotS Sidious>Plagueis>TPM Sidious

My point stands: Sidious, as of RotS is the most powerful Sith ever. Vitiate hasn't done anything suggesting it has been retconned.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Dooku have managed to rag-doll Anakin with his telekinetic abilities; his defeat onboard Invisible was the result of a setup. Dooku played by the rules and fell. Vitiate isn't going to grant Anakin such a favor.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And please! Ahsoka does not even registers in this fight.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yes, Anakin have felled his opponents within seconds; Dooku; Obi-Wan; Opress; Ventress and vice versa. He is fast like a Goku. 🙄

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Anakin like warriors have served Sith Emperor. Step out of your borderline idiocy.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It is entirely possible other beings are capable of performing it, but Vitiate's disintegration isn't as impressive so it doesn't indicate he can do what Yoda did.

Remember that scene in Episode II movie during which Dooku used both hands to rip apart some chunks from the ceiling? This feat required more effort then the crane feat.

In addition, Sidious haven't demonstrated amazing telekinetic abilities either so should we assume that he is not capable? You are making no sense.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
First Maul being one of the deadliest Sith is retconned, now Sidious being the most powerful is too?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
As for the quote from Luceno, he was talking about the Sidious portrayed in Darth Plagueis who is logically weaker then a later RotS Sidious who managed to surpass Plagueis.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
RotS Sidious>Plagueis>TPM Sidious

Do you think that Yoda would defeat Plagueis in single combat?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
My point stands: Sidious, as of RotS is the most powerful Sith ever. Vitiate hasn't done anything suggesting it has been retconned.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He has only managed to get him in a choke with the aid of Magnaguards. Each time he's blasted him with lightning or telekinesis or huehue, Anakin has come back up as if nothing happened. Vitiate should find it hard to overwhelm Anakin in my opinion.

Also, you cannot use Dooku as a analogy to advance your argument in favor of Anakin against a supremely strong character like Vitiate.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Huh?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
All of whom are faster than Vitiate. 🙄

Originally posted by Intrepid37
How 'bout you stop saying every canon fact you don't like has been retconned?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Disintegration and moving an object are two different kind of activities; I believe that disintegration is more difficult feat.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Remember that scene in Episode II movie during which Dooku used both hands to rip apart some chunks from the ceiling? This feat required more effort then the crane feat.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In addition, Sidious haven't demonstrated amazing telekinetic abilities either so should we assume that he is not capable? You are making no sense.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Not my fault.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This is your assumption; from the back cover of the book: He was the most powerful Sith lord who ever lived.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Even if power progression have occurred during this period, it is debatable if Sidious surpassed Plagueis in power by this point.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do you think that Yoda would defeat Plagueis in single combat?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
And what has Sidious done, as of RotS, that warrants him the "most powerful Sith ever" accolade? Was he breaking planets apart with thought?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
BS! Dooku overwhelmed Anakin with his telekinetic abilities on Tatooine but since the fight took place in a desert so Dooku was not in the position to harm Anakin easily in that setting.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In addition, Dooku once incapacitated Anakin with his lightning.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Furthermore, Dooku didn't go all-out against Anakin on Invisible Hand because he was tasked to lure Anakin to the dark side.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Also, you cannot use Dooku as a analogy to advance your argument in favor of Anakin against a supremely strong character like Vitiate.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate have easily felled some of the strongest Jedi in the Order. Do you think that Ahsoka would stand a chance? She would be broke even before she makes a move.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Do not expect me to take your subjective opinions easily.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
How about you start warming up to latest canonical developments rather then lurking in 2003?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I agree disintegration is as good as it gets, but Vitiate's demonstration is a far cry off the most impressive disintegration feats, i.e Bane and Plagueis.

Regardless, Vitiate is capable of collapsing gigantic buildings should he try. This he proved during his second confrontation with HoT.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Explicit ragdollings of Maul and Savage?

Have Sidious moved aircraft with his telekinetic abilities like Yoda? Have he lifted aircraft with his telekinetic abilities like Yoda?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
You say it as if it's fact which it isn't.

In this book: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Readers-Companion-Star-Wars/dp/0345511190 - all of the aforementioned characters have been featured and Sidious haven't been touted as the "strongest Sith" in it which was typical in previous Star Wars history based sources.

Therefore, authorities do not subscribe to your subjective theory of power rankings.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He was the most powerful Sith Lord who ever lived up until that point. He was surpassed by Sidious in RotS.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I think it's pretty clear considering numerous statements confirming Sidious as the most powerful Sith Lord ever at the point of RotS, while at the point of TPM, Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yoda would win a little majority, probably 7/10 but it'd be an extremely hard battle.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Manipulated the galaxy?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Killed four of the Orders most powerful Jedi Masters,

Originally posted by Intrepid37
stalemating/defeating the most powerful Jedi ever in Yoda,

Originally posted by Intrepid37
manhandling Maul and Opress, making Dooku shit himself over a goddamn holocron?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Who are you to decide the environment was in Anakin's favor without proof? If he could, Dooku would be choking him to death.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
When?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I don't have the novelization on me at this moment but I recall it implying Dooku didn't hold back.

"You will duel them," Sidious had said. "Kill Kenobi. His only purpose is to die and, in so doing, ignite young Skywalker to tap the depths of his fear and rage. Should you defeat Skywalker easily, then we will know that he is not prepared to serve us. Perhaps he never will be prepared. Should he by some fluke best you, however, I will control the outcome to spare you any some fluke best you, however, I will control the outcome to spare you any unnecessary embarrassment, and we will have gained a powerful ally. But above all you must make the contest appear real, Lord Tyranus." (SWLOE)

Dooku incapacitated Obi-Wan during the fight onboard Invisible Hand as per the plan. He could do the same to Anakin but chose not to because Sidious didn't want him to.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I can, actually. Dooku and Vitiate are easily comparable.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Agreed, but lifting her up and choking her would probably take a few seconds, enough time for Anakin to get close and kill him.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What, now Dooku, Kenobi and Ventress aren't faster than Vitiate? 😂

Originally posted by Intrepid37
It doesn't retcon anything, it retcons your opinion which you apparantly think is fact.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The event involving Bane and Kas'im proves that feats such as these have superficial value. And what have Plagueis disintegrated?

In blinding motion his hands and feet smashed skulls and windpipes. He stopped once to conjure a Force wave that all but atomized the bodies of six Maladians. He spun through a turn, dragging the wave halfway around the room to kill half a dozen more.

He did this under heavy injuries.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Regardless, Vitiate is capable of collapsing gigantic buildings should he try. This he proved during his second confrontation with HoT.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Opress send Sidious packing with his Force push during the same encounter as well...

Now who's the Maul fanboy?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Have Sidious moved aircraft with his telekinetic abilities like Yoda? Have he lifted aircraft with his telekinetic abilities like Yoda?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
My contention is that when Sidious was awarded the "strongest Sith" accolade; Plagueis wasn't explored; and Vitiate wasn't even introduced.

In this book: http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Readers-Companion-Star-Wars/dp/0345511190 - all of the aforementioned characters have been featured and Sidious haven't been touted as the "strongest Sith" in it which was typical in previous Star Wars history based sources.

Therefore, authorities do not subscribe to your subjective theory of power rankings.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Their is difference between "ever" and "in history."

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No, this is your subjective theory.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yoda isn't very smart; Plagueis may find a way to undermine him too. Dooku have outwitted him; Sidious have outgunned him regardless of his cockiness. Sidious clearly had the chance to kill Yoda during the very early stages of combat but he let that chance slip due to his cockiness. And Yoda isn't very good at utilizing his power to utmost effectiveness.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
He managed to conceal his Sith persona, which is impressive. However, he was a mastermind as well. He succeeded in his plans due to combination of both of these factors. However, these factors doesn't warrant him the accolade of "strongest Sith."

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Apart from Mace, others were celebrated swordsmen; nothing more.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
In addition, Sidious may have died if Anakin had not intervened.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yoda isn't very smart.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
These shouldn't matter.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Fair enough! But the million dollar question is? Did Sidious wanted Anakin dead?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
On Naboo.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
This was the plan:

"You will duel them," Sidious had said. "Kill Kenobi. His only purpose is to die and, in so doing, ignite young Skywalker to tap the depths of his fear and rage. Should you defeat Skywalker easily, then we will know that he is not prepared to serve us. Perhaps he never will be prepared. Should he by some fluke best you, however, I will control the outcome to spare you any some fluke best you, however, I will control the outcome to spare you any unnecessary embarrassment, and we will have gained a powerful ally. But above all you must make the contest appear real, Lord Tyranus." (SWLOE)

Dooku incapacitated Obi-Wan during the fight onboard Invisible Hand as per the plan. He could do the same to Anakin but chose not to because Sidious didn't want him to.

Outdated. The RotS novelization has it that Dookku goes for the kill from his own perspective and that ''Sidious would come up with a new plan quicker than a new apprentice.''

[/B][/QUOTE]
Concession accepted.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Vitiate have taken on and defeated multiple (powerful) opponents [B]simultaneously.

How much times does it takes to unleash Force powers? It happens with a thought or faster. And if Vitiate is slow, how come so many have failed to subdue him? Think... [/B]

Either way, faster than thought isn't really that good. Anakin's speed is far above that.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Covered above. Your assumptions are not facts.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Dooku have managed to rag-doll Anakin with his telekinetic abilities; his defeat onboard Invisible Handle was the result of a setup. Dooku foolishly played by the rules and fell.

The novel has Dooku stop holding back after replenishing himself with the Force and getting Kenobi out of the way.

Lucas says that Sidious said to Dooku something like "if he beats you I'll stop the fight, if you beat him, we'll know he's not ready." ROTS Audio commentary IIRC. Which is pretty much what the passage from LOE says that you quoted.

So Dooku was supposed to attempt to win the fight according to Lucas and LOE.

Whatever source you use, Anakin legitimately overpowered Count Dooku after "Attacking with a new ferocity" (ROTS Script).

The only argument that can be used against Anakin, is that Dooku could have possibly beat him before he attacked with that "new ferocity" had he not wasted so much time disposing of Kenobi.

BUT once Skywalker did attack on that new level, it was over for Dooku.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Another axel_jovan in the making; ignorant and clueless.

But it is understandable that the growing number of posters who do not masturbate in awe to KOTOR / TOR characters is your worst nightmare. 😉

Originally posted by Nephthys
IMO a fair debate is one in which both parties do everything they can to win, with neither side bound by morality and both giving their all to win.

Never!

Originally posted by Intrepid37
In blinding motion his hands and feet smashed skulls and windpipes. He stopped once to conjure a Force wave that all but atomized the bodies of six Maladians. He spun through a turn, dragging the wave halfway around the room to kill half a dozen more.

Now watch this video:

YouTube video

What message does this footage delivers? Atomizing defenseless humans is not going to make difference against powerful opponents.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He did this under heavy injuries.

I can offer more examples:-

A) Vitiate heavily damaged the (gigantic) Dark Temple after getting struck down; he was at his weakest point during this event. Do the math.

B) Malgus, after surviving near-death situation from his combat with Satele on Aldeeran, proceeded to kill two more Jedi by himself regardless of his injuries. During this fight, one Jedi collapsed two buildings around Malgus but this event didn't stop the Sith Lord; he blew apart tons of rubble that had fallen over him and got out to confront the Jedi.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Link?

YouTube video

9:10 - 9: 28

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Are you gonna ignore Sidious' complete manhandling of both of them?

Now who's the Maul fanboy?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
His showing against the brothers, who themselves have very impressive feats makes it entirely possible. For that matter, his lightning exceeded Yoda's limit.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Neither has done anything suggesting they are above Sidious' abilities.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
A theory which is really damn logically.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Being a mastermind isn't part of being a strong Sith?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
All have been called some of the best swordsmen in the order. Agen Kolar, the first to get blitzed if I recall correctly, has outright been stated to be one of the ''greatest swordbeings in the history of the Order'' following his stomp of Quinlan Vos.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not really.

Palpatine killed Master Windu's companions and battled the Jedi Master, who soon gained the upper hand. Just as Windu was ready to slay Palpatine, Anakin Skywalker intervened and cut off Windu's lightsaber hand. This gave Palpatine the opportunity to blast Windu with Force lightning, sending him out a window to his death. (SWTCE)

Originally posted by Intrepid37
What the hell has this to do with anything?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
No? Dooku himself is one of the greatest Jedi in the 25,000 year history of the Order and an even greater Lord of the Sith, but being incredibly afraid of Sidious doesn't matter?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Doesn't matter. Sidious didn't fight Anakin, Dooku did. Watch the fight, Dooku was going to kill Anakin at one point had Anakin not reacted fast enough.

Dooku had talent, and could be a powerful placeholder. But this seemingly guiless pleasant-faced boy, this Forceful boy, was the one he would take as his apprentice, and use to execute the final stage of the Grand Plan. Let Obi-Wan instruct him in the ways of the Force, and let Skywalker grow embittered over the next decade as his mother aged in slavery, the galaxy deteriorated around him, and his fellow Jedi fell to inextricable conflicts. He was too young to be trained in the ways of the Sith, in any case, but he was the perfect age to bond with a father figure who would listen to all his troubles and coax him inexorably over to the dark side.

"As I told you on Naboo, Anakin," he said finally, "we will
continue to follow your career with great interest."

And assure that it culminates in the ruination of the Jedi
Order and the reascendancy of the Sith! (SW: Plagueis)

Originally posted by Intrepid37
With the aid of Magnaguards, yeah.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Outdated. The RotS novelization has it that Dookku goes for the kill from his own perspective and that ''Sidious would come up with a new plan quicker than a new apprentice.''

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Concession accepted.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Prove it happens faster than thought.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Either way, faster than thought isn't really that good. Anakin's speed is far above that.

Besides, Mace, Yoda and Palpatine are faster then Anakin.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
But yours are?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Still it shows that Anakin isn't invulnerable to Force powers. If Dooku found it difficult to overwhelm him then this doesn't suggests that actual Sith heavyweights are going to find Anakin difficult to subdue.

Outdated? SWLOE was released in 2005; 2 years after release of ROTS Novelization. Dooku's perception does not holds true. He didn't suspected that Sidious planned to replace him.

Huh? Vitiate have ruled over millions of Sith Lords; many among them stronger then Dooku. Vitiate packed such devastating power that he had purged whole rebellious Dark Councils; he have easily subdued Jedi Strike Teams; he have broken powerful opponents with his mental powers alone; he have forced many dangerous Sith spirits to submission; he have successfully run an Empire for over 1300 years; he have demonstrated Abeloth like capabilities. Dude, stop being so naïve.

[/B]

January 25, 2005 Labyrinth of Evil and April 2, 2005 Revenge of the Sith Novelization?

Hardcover came out on January 25, 2005 ( September for paperback )
Hardcover came out on April 2, 2005 ( October 25 for paperback )

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Outdated? SWLOE was released in 2005; 2 years after release of ROTS Novelization. Dooku's perception does not holds true. He didn't suspected that Sidious planned to replace him.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
January 25, 2005 Labyrinth of Evil and April 2, 2005 Revenge of the Sith Novelization?

Hardcover came out on January 25, 2005 ( September for paperback )
Hardcover came out on April 2, 2005 ( October 25 for paperback )

Still Dooku's thought doesn't invalidates revelation in SWLOE. Dooku acted according to the plan during the actual fight as depicted in the G-Canon movie.

"You have hate. You have anger. But you don't use them." (Dooku to Anakin)

He knew that if he lost, he would be saved by Palpatine. That didn't happen.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Round 1: Inconclusive (Vitiate's martial skills are unknown)

Round 2: Clears
Really? I always thought Luke was the best, followed by Sidious and Yoda.......Looking into that one.

Round 3: Clears
Same as above.

Round 4: 50/50 at 8

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The novel has Dooku stop holding back after replenishing himself with the Force and getting Kenobi out of the way.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Lucas says that Sidious said to Dooku something like "if he beats you I'll stop the fight, if you beat him, we'll know he's not ready." ROTS Audio commentary IIRC. Which is pretty much what the passage from LOE says that you quoted.

So Dooku was supposed to attempt to win the fight according to Lucas and LOE.

Whatever source you use, Anakin legitimately overpowered Count Dooku after "Attacking with a new ferocity" (ROTS Script).

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The only argument that can be used against Anakin, is that Dooku could have possibly beat him before he attacked with that "new ferocity" had he not wasted so much time disposing of Kenobi.

BUT once Skywalker did attack on that new level, it was over for Dooku.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Thanks for the information.

Now watch this video:

YouTube video

What message does this footage delivers? Atomizing defenseless humans is not going to make difference against powerful opponents.

Either way, bad logic. T3 was defenseless, so was the technobeasts. Wanna write of these feats too?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Good for him...

I can offer more examples:-

A) Vitiate heavily damaged the (gigantic) Dark Temple after getting struck down; he was at his weakest point during this event. Do the math.
There's really no proof he brought down the temple.

[QUOTE=14308505]Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
[B]Malgus, after surviving near-death situation from his combat with Satele on Aldeeran, proceeded to kill two more Jedi by himself regardless of his injuries. During this fight, one Jedi collapsed two buildings around Malgus but this event didn't stop the Sith Lord; he blew apart tons of rubble that had fallen over him and got out to confront the Jedi.

Malgus' injus were ''serious'' as per the trooper, nothing more.

Plagueis' were far worse:

His second subsidiary heart failed, paralyzing him with pain and nearly plunging him into unconsciousness.

-Darth Plagueis

They flew against him again, making the most of his momentary weakness to open gashes on his arms and shoulders.

-Darth Plagueis

He knew that he had life enough to conjure one final counteroffensive.

-Darth Plagueis[/]

[i]Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Watch this video:

YouTube video

9:10 - 9: 28

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You are evading my original question; you brought up Yoda's feat of colliding two transport aircraft with each other as an indication of his supremacy over Vitiate in power in the first place (Check page 1 of this thread). My point is that Sidious haven't demonstrated comparable feat either and Yoda couldn't defeat him. Therefore, your over-reliance upon "impressive telekinetic feats" to advance your arguments is not going to help you in a debate because many characters have not been explored much in the context of "feats" in the mythos. When the terms such as "supremely powerful" are associated with a (Jedi/Sith) character then this implies that such a character is capable of doing wonders with the Force.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sith with very impressive feats have served under Vitiate. If they were capable of taking him down, they would have done so; they couldn't. Therefore, Yoda doesn't have chance either. Vitiate is supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, and his proficiency in lightning greatly exceeds Yoda's limit.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
HoT who is immensely strong like Luke.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
I assume that you know English...

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No!

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
It represents intelligence, right?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Exceptional swordsmen have served the Emperor as well. The Emperor's Wrath have kill record of Jedi and Sith exceeding 1000. Do the math.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
What makes you think otherwise?

If you really think that Mace would give anything but a decent challenge to Sidious you're delusional.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sidious stalemating Yoda isn't such a big deal.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Relatively inferior Dooku have outwitted same opponent twice.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Sidious isn't the only one who was feared. Vitiate takes the crown in this department. In addition, Dooku being one of the greatest isn't such a big deal anymore; their are perhaps thousands of others who may fall in the same boat in the history of Jedi Order. Of-course, this is still a small number if the entire 25000 year history of the Jedi Order is considered but then lot of this history haven't been adequately explored till date.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
As far an "even greater Lord of the Sith" part is concerned, it no longer holds merit; Dooku is definitely in the "above average" category but no longer a heavyweight.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
But why would he risk jeopardizing Palpatine's grand plan?

Dooku had talent, and could be a powerful placeholder. But this seemingly guiless pleasant-faced boy, this Forceful boy, was the one he would take as his apprentice, and use to execute the final stage of the Grand Plan. Let Obi-Wan instruct him in the ways of the Force, and let Skywalker grow embittered over the next decade as his mother aged in slavery, the galaxy deteriorated around him, and his fellow Jedi fell to inextricable conflicts. He was too young to be trained in the ways of the Sith, in any case, but he was the perfect age to bond with a father figure who would listen to all his troubles and coax him inexorably over to the dark side.

"As I told you on Naboo, Anakin," he said finally, "we will
continue to follow your career with great interest."

[i]Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Still it shows that Anakin isn't invulnerable to Force powers.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If Dooku found it difficult to overwhelm him then this doesn't suggests that actual Sith heavyweights are going to find Anakin difficult to subdue.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Outdated? SWLOE was released in 2005; 2 years after release of ROTS Novelization. Dooku's perception does not holds true. He didn't suspected that Sidious planned to replace him.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Huh? Vitiate have ruled over millions of Sith Lords; many among them stronger then Dooku. Vitiate packed such devastating power that he had purged whole rebellious Dark Councils; he have easily subdued Jedi Strike Teams; he have broken powerful opponents with his mental powers alone; he have forced many dangerous Sith spirits to submission; he have successfully run an Empire for over 1300 years; he have demonstrated Abeloth like capabilities. Dude, stop being so naïve.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
So it takes a while to unleash a Force power? Seriously, you lack in common sense as well. Force powers are unleashed instantly.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
BS! Vitiate's speed/reflexes are [B]likely to be extraordinary. [/B]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Besides, Mace, Yoda and Palpatine are faster then Anakin.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
However, Dooku had the option to use his Sith powers to stop Anakin; he didn't in this fight. Therefore, whether he could do something during Anakin's furious onslaught or not remains a mystery.

Dooku's decades of combat experience are irrelevant. His mastery of swordplay is useless. His vast wealth, his political influence, impeccable breeding, immaculate manners, exquisite taste-the pursuits and points of pride to which he has devoted so much of his time and attention over the long, long years of his life-are now chains hung upon his spirit, bending his neck before the ax.

Even his knowledge of the Force has become a joke.

How are you going to have a poll but then have 4 different scenarios?

1. Stops at one.
2. Stops at six.
3. and 4. stops at five.

I haven't seen Vitiate shown capability of even wielding a saber (he could barely even hold one), let alone be a master of all the seven lightsaber forms and all techniques and stances within said forms, and have mastery over all the said forms ambidextrously.

I haven't seen Vitiate move at near-relativistic speeds that are too fast for someone (who dodges lightning and sees sub-light speed ships in slow motion) to even see.

Yea, the vote thing is messed up....Don't know if you can change it... Oh well.