Lord Vitiate runs the gauntlet.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
I haven't seen Vitiate shown capability of even wielding a saber (he could barely even hold one), let alone be a master of all the seven lightsaber forms and all techniques and stances within said forms, and have mastery over all the said forms ambidextrously.

I haven't seen Vitiate move at near-relativistic speeds that are too fast for someone (who dodges lightning and sees sub-light speed ships in slow motion) to even see.

I haven't seen Vitiate become powerful without relics and trinkets.

I haven't seen Vitiate light up a planet with Force Lightning.

I haven't seen Vitiate create a storm with his mere fury while keeping his fury private.

I haven't seen Vitiate slay three council members in combat before they can react (one council member already began to withstand his lightning, plus another knight).

Vitiate hasn't ever used relics and trinkets to my knowledge. His power came purely from his knowledge and rituals.

And Vitiate has technically slain more than three council members before they can react, lol.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
I haven't seen Vitiate shown capability of even wielding a saber (he could barely even hold one)

Now this is just stupid. He wields one against the Hero of Tython when he possesses Kira Carsen (even does a fancy twirl). People calling him slow and that he has weak lightsaber skills are getting way ahead of themselves. Just because he's shown no abilities there does not make him weak, merely that we don't know his capabilities.

Originally posted by Nephthys
He wields one against the Hero of Tython when he possesses Kira Carsen (even does a fancy twirl).

A fancy twirl you say?! Definitely Dooku-level material right there.

He could barely hold a saber properly in the Revan novel.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
He could barely hold a saber properly in the Revan novel.

And yet is capable of fancy twirls a mere 300 years later. Time well spent, I'd say.

He was disarmed by a mere saber-throw.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He was disarmed by a mere saber-throw.

Give him another three centuries. With that staggering learning rate, there's no telling what he'd be capable of.

Dare I say two fancy twirls?!

Then he'd be too fast for the eye to see, no?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
That's a trailer. Did it happen in-game?

However, message given is clear-cut that defenseless humans don't stand a chance against the power of the Force. Only a Jedi or Sith can withstand such power through defensive applications of the Force.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Either way, bad logic. T3 was defenseless, so was the technobeasts. Wanna write of these feats too?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
😂

Malgus' injus were ''serious'' as per the trooper, nothing more.

Malgus's brutal campaign nearly ended forever when he suffered a crushing defeat battling Jace Malcom, commander of the elite Havoc Squad, and Satele Shan on Aldeeran. The Empire's greatest surgeons and cyberneticists repaired Malgus's broken body and installed a special breathing apparatus to conceal his ruined face. (SWTORE, Page 169)

Originally posted by Intrepid37
No proof Vitiate did it.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Sidious' lightning exceeding Yoda's limits and complete ragdollings of Maul and Savage isn't as good as Yoda's feat?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Right, because the Sith serving Vitiate are on Yoda's level?

Some examples:

Darth Jadus was so powerful that he could prevent disintegration of his Imperial starship with his power in the Force out in the space while he stood inside it after attempts were made to disintegrate it with planted bombs. Imperial intelligence claims that Jadus's powers are second only to the Emperor but this is disputed; Darth Marr is arguably stronger.

Darth Marr; a master of the dark side; survived on the Dark Council for several decades; became de-factor leader of the Empire in the absence of the Sith Emperor.

This is an indication of Marr's skill and power:

Tales spread through the Republic of the masked Dark Council member who routed armies and deflected assaults more thoroughly than any planetary shield. (SWTORE, Page 174)

Darth Tanaton was supremely strong in the dark side. And even this guy was routed out by the deadly Darth Nox (who harnessed overwhelming power of several consumed Force spirits). I don't know if it is even possible to defeat Darth Nox through conventional means.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
lol

-----------------------------
-----------------------------

Time to explain a bit about capabilities of HoT (Hero of Tython):

"You harness immense power." (Sith Emperor to HoT)

Defeated following noteworthy opponents in single combat:

01. Bengel Morr (Corrupted)

A powerful Jedi hero; survivor of Sacking of Coruscant event; defeated the battle-hardened Jedi Master Orgus Din in single combat.

02. Sith Lord Tarnis

Son of powerful Darth Angral; skilled swordsman (trained by the EXPERT swordsman Praven) with decent mastery of the Force.

03. Lord Sadic

Noted to be highly powerful before he underwent the Power Gaurd programme, which transformed him from a slight man into a hulking cybernetic giant. Said to be the best of Angrals apprentices even before his upgrade.

04. Sith Lord Praven

EXPERT swordsman; superb warrior; defeated some of the Jedi Order's finest duelists; once blitzed 3 opponents simultaneously with a single attack.

05. The Sand Demon

This thing hunts Krayt Dragons. 😐

Let that set in for a moment. Codex Entry.

06. Lord Nefarid

Its noted that he isn't very powerful in the Force despite the fact that hes pants-shittingly difficult in the game. Still, we see how immensely hard it is to prove yourself worthy of becoming a Sith Lord in the Inquisitor campaign, so he must be pretty good. Also he can become invisible and has a ****ing orbital death laser firing at you throughout the fight, which the Knight dodges several times.

07. Rakata entity (20,000 years old)

Gigantic figure who corrupted individuals around him and possesses supernatural powers.

08. Darth Angral

One of the Empire's most celebrated warlords; very powerful in the Force; master swordsman; decent tactician; commander of Darth Malgus; slaughtered Orgus Din. Lead the Sack of Coruscant, the most significant military attack in Imperial History. This lead to him being offered a place on the Dark Council, but he refused. So even as of Act 1 the Hero defeated a Dark Council-level opponent. After fighting through the Desolator to get to him.

09. Kira Carsen (possessed)

Kira is then possessed by the Emperor and you have to defeat her. While Kira is obviously not as powerful as the Hero, the Emperor is likely the most skilled and knowledgable Force User up to that point in galactic history, plus you'd just fought through a star destroyer and fought a Darth.

10. Pulled down pieces of the ceiling to collapse four tunnels which the Colicoids were using to enter a hospital, despite resistance from several dozen enemies.

.... pretty self-explanatory.

11. Emperor's Wrath

EXPERT swordsman; superb warrior; kill record of Sith and Jedi exceeding 1000. Even the Dark Council is afraid of him.

12. Leehan Narez (Fallen)

One of the strongest Jedi of the Order. Fights along with her droids.

13. Warren Sedoru (Fallen)

One of the strongest Jedi of the Order; survived many near-death situations. Satale Shan credits him as the best infiltrator in the Order, as well as some other shit.

14. Guardsman Lassicar

A member of the Imperial Guard who's defeated 'six Jedi and over two dozen Sith Lords who made the mistake of crossing the Emperor.'

15. Ancient Terentatek

Much bigger than a regular terentatek, this thing was pretty damn big.

16. Lord Fulminiss

One of the greatest Sith Sorcerers in the Empire, who is said to have once disintegrated an entire city with 'a raging storm of pure Force energy.' Was able to drive even Sith Lords and Voss Mystics to gibbering madness and planned to use his power to drive the entire planet Voss insane. Dunno if that makes him a planetary-level Force-User but you have to admit its kind of crazy.

15. The Gormak Guardian

Its ****ing enormous:

The Gormak by its leg is a good 8 feet tall. The Gormak Guardian is telepathic and a manifestation of Sel-Makor, radiating darkside energy and dominating the minds of the Gormak.

16. Blitzed 2 Sith Warriors

For clarity: You come up behind them after they've defeated Jedi Council member Kiwiiks and instead of just killing them from behind the Hero gives them time to react to them by activating their lightsaber, leaping straight over them and then cutting both of them down before they can do anything.

17. Blitzed 2 Sith Warriors (again)

This time they drop down from the ceiling behind the Hero in an ambush yet the Hero is still able to turn around and cut both down with a single slash each.

16. Tol Braga (Fallen)

One of the strongest Jedi of the Order; defeated a Dark Councilor in single combat after several days of fighting. The Hero can also dominate his mind, which is a really damn good feat.

17. Imperial Guard

Elite warriors, 'unmatched in martial skill' and able to contend with Jedi and Sith. The Knight fights through them to get to the Emperor (after already fighting through Kaas City).

13. The Sith Emperor

Avatar of the dark side; supremely powerful in the Force. Fought on a darkside nexus so powerful that conventional weapons don't even work near it.

This is the big one. An amazing feat.

------------

As per SWTORE, HoT handled impossible odds.

------------

List compiled with help of member (Nephthys).

Originally posted by Intrepid37
How the hell does it not make sense? Plagueis was the most powerful Sith Lord in history but was surpassed by a later RotS Sidious who then claimed the title of being the most powerful Sith Lord ever/in history.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yeah?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Battledroids have higher killcounts than Count friggen' Dooku. Battledroid>Dooku now?

Emperor's Wrath have cut down over a thousand Jedi and Sith.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
The novelization makes it clear Sidious could've made Mace eat his own saber had he continued the lightning.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
If you really think that Mace would give anything but a decent challenge to Sidious you're delusional.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
I'm not going to take you seriously. Fighting evenly with the most powerful Jedi ever at this point isn't a big deal?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Dooku was forced to flee both encounters. He never ''outwitted'' him.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
The ones who feared Vitiate, do they have the same accolades as Dooku?

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Dooku is only ''above average''? No longer a ''heavyweight''? You must be smoking hard.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
The reason why Ventress has been sent to kill Anakin. Had he not survived the Clone Wars, he hadn't proved himself worthy of being an apprentice.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Of course he isn't. But he sure as hell has a better chance of overcoming them than most.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
In force power, Vitiate is above Dooku but there's no big margin really.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
RotS novelization was released three months after LoE.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Vitiate has defeated no one above Dooku's caliber.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Not faster than Anakin can be all over Vitiate's face.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Likely is keyword.

Originally posted by Intrepid37
Yoda and Sidious are. Mace? Nah.

I haven't seen Vitiate be the culmination of nearly 1000 years' worth of training, experience, knowledge, wisdom and observation.

Palpatine has spent decades studying the most arcane and esoteric Jedi disciplines. It is believed that he has mastered nearly all the known powers, previously unknown powers, and devises new ones at his pleasure.

--Taken from Dark Empire Sourcebook

"There is nothing I do not know. Nothing that is worth knowing, anyway."

Vitiate requires additional aid as well as countless simultaneous deaths, plus an entire ritual.
Not from his own power.

Lol.

Vitiate is the culmination of nearly over 1000 years' worth of training, experience, knowledge, wisdom and observation.

His own. 😉

Originally posted by Intrepid37
He was disarmed by a mere saber-throw.

He was taken by surprise. And I don't know where pencils getting that he could barely hold one.

Just some stray observations for your erudition:
[list]
[*]Mocking aside, Neph is absolutely right on this one. We cannot factually conclude that Vitiate is an inept swordsman simply because there are no current available depictions of him properly wielding one. Likewise, we cannot assume he is a master duelist simply because he's really powerful. It is certainly not without merit to believe that Dooku, while not as powerful as Vitiate, would utterly eviscerate Vitiate by virtue of the fact that we know Dooku is an uncommonly prolific and talented duelist.

[*]Pencilcrayon, the quote from The Dark Empire Sourcebook isn't ironclad: it merely communicates a common belief about Palpatine's abilities. It may be right, it may not.

[*]The idea that Dooku is ineligible for "heavyweight" status is really, really, really dumb and indefensible given what we know of the character.
[/list]

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Some of those Sith who served him were extraordinarily powerful.

Some examples:

Darth Jadus was so powerful that he could prevent disintegration of his Imperial starship with his power in the Force out in the space while he stood inside it after attempts were made to disintegrate it with planted bombs. Imperial intelligence claims that Jadus's powers are second only to the Emperor but this is disputed; Darth Marr is arguably stronger.

Darth Marr; a master of the dark side; survived on the Dark Council for several decades; became de-factor leader of the Empire in the absence of the Sith Emperor.

This is an indication of Marr's skill and power:

Tales spread through the Republic of the masked Dark Council member who routed armies and deflected assaults more thoroughly than any planetary shield. (SWTORE, Page 174)

Darth Tanaton was supremely strong in the dark side. And even this guy was routed out by the deadly Darth Nox (who harnessed overwhelming power of several consumed Force spirits). I don't know if it is even possible to defeat Darth Nox through conventional means.

The (second) Emperor's Wrath cut down Darth Baras; a Dark Councilor who handled (Jedi Master) Satele Shan in single combat. I don't think Satele Shan needs any introduction.

There were more:-

- Darth Malgus
- Darth Angral

Perhaps lot more...

-----

Not to forget that it is very difficult to become a Dark Councilor in the first place. The competition is cut-throat involving millions of Sith. Sometimes Sith Lords don't even last a month in the Council.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Darth Tanaton was supremely strong in the dark side. And even this guy was routed out by the deadly Darth Nox (who harnessed overwhelming power of several consumed Force spirits). I don't know if it is even possible to defeat Darth Nox through conventional means.

I think they can be defeated, though not killed. So far Thanaton has 'killed' me once already. I got better. But I hear whispers about the Inquisitor gaining an invincible body. So you may be right.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I think they can be defeated, though not killed. So far Thanaton has 'killed' me once already. I got better. But I hear whispers about the Inquisitor gaining an invincible body. So you may be right.

What surprised me is that when he cut down Darth Thanaton (supremely strong dark sider after a major battle) in front of the other Councilors, they were watching in amusement (like they were eating popcorn). Damn, these guys are hardcore to the bone.

Indeed. Apparently the Imperial Guards state themselves that the Emperor was keeping an eye on him the whole time, stating that he was one of few Sith worthy of his attention. The Inquisitor is doubtless one of the most powerful TOR characters.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Even on a Dark Side Nexus, his lightning has no knockback capabilities that Sidious has even in neutral setting.

Should he decide to go all-out, he would reduce even super-strong opponents to ash and dust with his lightning alone. He went all-out against legendary Revan (because Revan managed to give Vitiate some taste of his own medicine) and would have utterly destroyed him if T3-M4 had not intervened. And Revan is supremely adept in the use of Jedi healing and defensive applications; more so then Yoda. In fact, the knowledge of the technique to resist the effects of poisons and drugs through the Force was passed from Revan's holocron to RoT initiator: Bane.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
He has never lit up a planet with force lightning.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
He has never killed beings so quickly they appeared to be disposed of by a phantom, while an apprentice.

Centuries later, he (instantly) purged an entire Dark Council with a single blast of power:

I remains a mystery how the Emperor learned of his Council's treachery. He allowed their plan to play out, but when they gathered to confront the Emperor, his punishment was swift and devastating. Eleven members of the Dark Council died in a sudden flash on the steps of the Citadel. (SWTORE, Page 157)

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
He has never mind wiped billions effortlessly.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
I haven't seen Vitiate telepathically incapacitate multiple Jedi Masters from across the galaxy.

However, Vitiate did something big:

Children of the Emperor:-

For the rest of their lives, these unwitting pawns would serve as the eyes and ears of the Emperor. And should he desire their action, the Emperor could reach out and control them to enact his will. Thus the Children of the Emperor were born.

The Jedi remained blind to the Emperor's children due to the presence of the First Son, the being who was first imprinted with the Emperor's power. While the First Son lived, the Emperor's secret army remained hidden and undetectable beneath the Republic's nose. By the time of the Great Warm hundreds of the Emperor's Children were embedded within the Republic. Devoted Jedi, loyal soldiers and influential politicians all unknowingly served as the Emperor's spies and, when the Emperor willed it, acted to tear down the Republic they held so dear. (SWTORE, Page 163)

More;

By drawing on his incredible dark powers, the Emperor imprinted his consciousness onto unwitting pawns who would serve as vessels for carrying out his will. Through the eyes and ears of these "children," he could uncover threats in both the Empire and Republic while they were still nothing but whispers. And should the need arise, the Emperor could seize control of his children and instruct them to crush any plot that dared defy his will. (SWTORE, Page 161)

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
I haven't seen Vitiate picture events in exact detail across planetary, let alone galactic, distances.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
I haven't seen Vitiate be described as a Black Hole in the Force.

Over 300 years ago, the great Jedi heroes Revan and Malak stumbled upon the long-hidden Sith Empire's capital of Dromund Kaas, and its ruler - a mysterious, almost godlike avatar of the dark side. (SWTORE, Page 88)

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
I haven't seen Vitiate become powerful without trinkets and relics.
Rituals and trinkets that required time to accomplish most of his feats. Sidious' feats were all from himself.

When Vitiate was born, he was (naturally) supremely strong in the dark side of the Force. No wonder he gained control over his home planet at the age of 13.

Then he performed a (planet busting) ritual with which he trapped millions of spirits - creating an enormous supply of (Force) reserves - for himself which he would siphon continuously to artificially prolong his life. He also transformed himself in to an immortal being through the same ritual and no longer depended upon his biological characteristics for power.

The pain, energy, and suffering of every living entity on the planet fueled his power and would prolong his life for centuries. (SWTORE, Page 161)

Many centuries later, he finally was in the position to perform a (Galaxy busting) ritual which would transform him in to an omnipotent godlike being with the ability to create space matter itself and not just life.

This was his power progression:-

Sith Lord Vitiate -> Sith Emperor -> Godlike omnipotent entity

He was fortunately stopped at the 3rd step.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
I haven't seen Vitiate establish and destroy telepathic links from across the galaxy, without having to formerly interact and establish a mental link with them at close proximity.

Sith Emperor have demonstrated Abeloth like abilities:

The Voice is the mouthpiece through which the Emperor delivers his orders. This possessed being sacrifices all consciousness to become a hollow vessel for the Emperor. Over the centuries, the Emperor has taken many Voices, from young children to alien species. When the Voice speaks, it does so with the Emperor's cold, emotionless, and commanding tone. The Voice also wields the Emperor's incredible power and is capable of striking down anyone who displeases him. Those who converse with the Voice are overwhelmed with dread and unshakable obedience. To speak with the Voice is to speak with the Emperor himself.

The Emperor created his first Voice after the legendary Jedi named Revan attempted to assassinate him on Dromund Kaas. Through Revan's plot failed, he approached within striking distance of the Emperor. To guard against further vulnerability, the Emperor created the Voice to deliver his orders while distancing himself from the forces that conspired against him. Centuries later, this very safeguard would save the Emperor once more. (SWTORE, Page 163)

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Malgus' lightning against an armored Republic Commando wasn't able to kill him and he kept moving at Malgus until force pushed.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Sidious has destroyed 50 armored stormtroopers in a single blast while arcing around royal guards.

Sith Emperor unleashed a dozen bolts towards Revan alone.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Shrugged off a force enhanced explosion from a force user capable of manipulating a Star Destroyer

Darth Malgus and Darth Vindican have endured direct SLM hits. Sith Emperor will be able to endure such powerful explosives.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.

--Taken from The New Essential Chronology

However;

The Sith Emperor, history's most powerful dark side master, performed a ritual of incredible scope to consume the life of energy of every being on his homeworld. (SWTORE, Page 148)

SWTORE released in 2012.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Darth Sidious proved to be the grim culmination of a thousand years of Sith philosophy and teachings.

--Taken from Jedi vs Sith: The Essential Guide to the Force

Credit for this goes to ancient Sith as well; hint: Revan's holocron.

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
When the Sith finally emerged from a thousand years of watching and waiting, they numbered—in accordance with the tradition set down by Darth Bane—only two. The most powerful of these was Darth Sidious, an ice-cold, diabolically calculating genius equipped with the strength of the dark side of the Force, as well as an enormous wealth of Sith artifacts, equipment, and knowledge.

--Taken from The Dark Side Sourcebook

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
And then there was Palpatine, of course: he was beyond power. He showed nothing of what might be within. Though seen with the eyes of the dark side itself, Palpatine was an event horizon. Beneath his entirely ordinary surface was absolute, perfect nothingness. Darkness beyond darkness. A black hole of the Force.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

This;

"They say he was born with eyes as black as the void of empty space, and that he never cried, even as an infant. No animal
would come near him, and when he began to talk, his voice carried a weight and power that should not come from a child." (SWTOR: Revan)

&

Scourge cried out in anguish as the Emperor's mind brushed against his, then he collapsed to the floor, shaking like a child. The touch lasted less than a second, but in that time he witnessed indescribable horrors that dwarfed anything the dark side could conjure even in his worst nightmares. And beneath the formless terrors lurked the unbearable Void, the pure emptiness of total annihilation. (SWTOR: Revan)

Originally posted by pencilcrayon
Plagueis made a soothing gesture and explained in great detail what had taken place. Concluding, he said, "He threatened, too, to place you out of reach."
All the while Plagueis spoke, Palpatine was storming through circles on the narrow path, shaking his head in anger and balling his fists. "He can't do this!" he snarled. He hasn't the right! I won't allow it!"
Palpatine's fury buffeted Plagueis. Blossoms growing along the sides of the pathway folded in on themselves, and their pollinators began to buzz in agitation. FourDee reacted, as well, wobbling on its feet, as if in the grip of a powerful electromagnet. Had this human truly been born of flesh-and-blood parents? Plagueis asked himself. When, in fact, he seemed sprung from nature itself. Was the Force so strong in him that it had concealed itself?

--Taken from Darth Plagueis

The child who will come to be known as the Sith Emperor is born. Black-eyed, heartless, and supremely strong in the dark side of the Force, the boy seizes control of his homeworld by the age of 13 and earns the title Lord Vitiate. (SWTORE, Page 16)