Originally posted by Philosophía
He lost to something that he created before he was corrupted - the ultimate defender of existence, who adapted to any threat powered by the unstoppable and indestructible story of Superman, as they fought on a realm of pure ideas.You have to stop treating this as "energy discharge" mentality. The story was metatextual for a reason - and his 'defeats' came within the same context. Superman, in his pure thought form, is a stronger idea, that will forever defend the comic book world. Nix Uotan, a younger, more optimistic Monitor came to show Mandrakk II that there is still story potential, that ideas are still there, and forever will be - that the Multiverse, the 'story' will not die.
Imagination is the failsafe of the Multiverse against Mandrakk.
Once you start thinking about how the Monitors represented the writers, and their different type of mentalities [the old, destructive ones or the young, creative optimistic ones like Nix Uotan], it will be clearer.
they didn't fight in the realm of ideas they fought on nil and then mandrakk fell into the over monitor which proves that mandrakk is not more special than any other comic character with hyperbolic statements (he's certainly one of the most powerful but he's not on a meta-textual level)
and which heavily contradicts that only superman's story can defeat mandrakk's yet superman defeated him on a physical level.
and what makes mandrakk even less impressive is his defeat by the thought robot.
he apparently unleashed an attack containing the heat of ten billion suns, but don't let the words fool you, when you come to think of it, it isn't even a universal attack, and yet, thought robot was greatly hurt by it, even spilling blood, and then proceeded to defeat mandrakk, the battle was clearly on a physical level.
though im not going to dismiss your point, which does hold truth to it, but only a part of the truth since you're looking at mandrakk only from one point of view, which is that he can only be defeated by superman's story, you're not considering the fact that mandrakk was defeated by a physical encounter.
let's take lucifer for example, he tanked a multiversal explosion at ground zero, and if we're going to compare him to mandrakk you'll still say mandrakk wins since he operates on a meta-textual level despite being defeated in a physical encounter by a being clearly less powerful than lucifer?
Originally posted by operator616
they didn't fight in the realm of ideas they fought on nil and then mandrakk fell into the over monitor which proves that mandrakk is not more special than any other comic character with hyperbolic statements (he's certainly one of the most powerful but he's not on a meta-textual level)
and which heavily contradicts that only superman's story can defeat mandrakk's yet superman defeated him on a physical level.and what makes mandrakk even less impressive is his defeat by the thought robot.
he apparently unleashed an attack containing the heat of ten billion suns, but don't let the words fool you, when you come to think of it, it isn't even a universal attack, and yet, thought robot was greatly hurt by it, even spilling blood, and then proceeded to defeat mandrakk, the battle was clearly on a physical level.though im not going to dismiss your point, which does hold truth to it, but only a part of the truth since you're looking at mandrakk only from one point of view, which is that he can only be defeated by superman's story, you're not considering the fact that mandrakk was defeated by a physical encounter.
let's take lucifer for example, he tanked a multiversal explosion at ground zero, and if we're going to compare him to mandrakk you'll still say mandrakk wins since he operates on a meta-textual level despite being defeated in a physical encounter by a being clearly less powerful than lucifer?
Ten billion suns? Apparently, you don't know metaphors 😉 You also forgot to mention where he says he has eternal power? Not to mention, the bleed, the life force of DCU. As stated, controlling just a drop is to have unlimited power. That's the exact thing that Mandrakk feeds on throughout while locked away.
The cosmic armor is made to fight the greatest enemy. Powered by story. The only story that can beat Mandrakk is Superman's story. The armor also adapts to all threats. I don't understand what you deny? This was stated plain and simple. Again, in SB#2(pg1), pretty much tells you what Philo explained about Mandrakk.
Thought robot? Yes, read Adam's explanation
Nil? That's what the Monitors called it when they started getting affected by stories. Yet, Superman pretty much tells you in SB#2 what it is.
Also, you are looking for feats that don't need to be given. It's pretty much someone saying things like oh, how can (insert omnipotent being) be supreme, where are the feats?, Morrison was clear when he said what Mandrakk is, not just in SB#1-2, but in various interviews. Until that changes, you have to take the intended explanation of the character.
As far as Mandrakk being beaten by physical thing? Read it again, Nix says it, she founds a STORY that is indestructible and unbeatable. Yet, mandrakk was never beaten. He is an idea, opposite of life, which is why he returns.
Originally posted by xJLxKing
Ten billion suns? Apparently, you don't know metaphors 😉 You also forgot to mention where he says he has eternal power? Not to mention, the bleed, the life force of DCU. As stated, controlling just a drop is to have unlimited power. That's the exact thing that Mandrakk feeds on throughout while locked away.The cosmic armor is made to fight the greatest enemy. Powered by story. The only story that can beat Mandrakk is Superman's story. The armor also adapts to all threats. I don't understand what you deny? This was stated plain and simple. Again, in SB#2(pg1), pretty much tells you what Philo explained about Mandrakk.
Thought robot? Yes, read Adam's explanation
Nil? That's what the Monitors called it when they started getting affected by stories. Yet, Superman pretty much tells you in SB#2 what it is.
Also, you are looking for feats that don't need to be given. It's pretty much someone saying things like oh, how can (insert omnipotent being) be supreme, where are the feats?, Morrison was clear when he said what Mandrakk is, not just in SB#1-2, but in various interviews. Until that changes, you have to take the intended explanation of the character.
As far as Mandrakk being beaten by physical thing? Read it again, Nix says it, she founds a STORY that is indestructible and unbeatable. Yet, mandrakk was never beaten. He is an idea, opposite of life, which is why he returns.
metaphor? don't think so, it was a statement to show the scale of power on which they're fighting otherwise you might as well say every narration of a cosmic battle is a metaphor.
mandrakk is not the supreme being, morrison stated that over monitor is God (supreme) and not mandrakk, mandrakk is simply the ultimate evil not supreme.
as i stated before i am not denying that it was stated that mandrakk can only be beaten by superman's story, i am saying that we shouldn't ignore the fact that mandrakk was beaten in a physical encounter as well.
mandrakk returns? unless you're talking about mandrakk 2 who got owned by GLs, mandrakk 1 was knocked into the void until the thought of him faded away, so he's definitely not returning.
Originally posted by operator616
metaphor? don't think so, it was a statement to show the scale of power on which they're fighting otherwise you might as well say every narration of a cosmic battle is a metaphor.mandrakk is not the supreme being, morrison stated that over monitor is God (supreme) and not mandrakk, mandrakk is simply the ultimate evil not supreme.
as i stated before i am not denying that it was stated that mandrakk can only be beaten by superman's story, i am saying that we shouldn't ignore the fact that mandrakk was beaten in a physical encounter as well.
mandrakk returns? unless you're talking about mandrakk 2 who got owned by GLs, mandrakk 1 was knocked into the void until the thought of him faded away, so he's definitely not returning.
He was defeated physically, but only because it was powered by Superman's story. I don't know how to explain it easier.
No, Mandrakk is definitely not a Supreme being, but I was pointing out, that you don't need all kinds of feats to prove that he is tough. You keep bringing up the "the heat of ten billions sons", yet you taking it out of context. He also says that says, the blood of 5 universes. He also says he has the Bleed, you know the blood life of all DCU.
Originally posted by xJLxKingHe was defeated physically, but only because it was powered by Superman's story. I don't know how to explain it easier.
No, Mandrakk is definitely not a Supreme being, but I was pointing out, that you don't need all kinds of feats to prove that he is tough. You keep bringing up the "the heat of ten billions sons", yet you taking it out of context. He also says that says, the blood of 5 universes. He also says he has the Bleed, you know the blood life of all DCU.
that's the thing though, being defeated physically powered by superman's story (which isn't physical) don't fit together, it's a contradiction.
take it out of context? not sure what you mean.
he actually said the blood of 52 universes.
the statement "heat of ten billion suns" was to express the power level of the attack.
the statement "blood of 52 universes" was to show that mandrakk was feeding off the blood of the 52 universes (the whole multiverse)
at least it's how i see it, if you don't what do you make of the statement feel the blood of 52 universes?
