Originally posted by quanchi112
Why can't you requote your old post ? Doesn't seem to much to ask for.I am bringing up other skilled characters as a point of reference to make a point. I am on topic, dear.
Yoda has against lesser skilled opponents, in a smaller group, and with the aid of a competent fighter who was not taken prisoner like say the Enterprise crew.
I don't think he can since Khan has one powerful gun and one quick firing gun coupled with his deadly accuracy/ruthless=win.
The time it took you to ask that question would have been better spent following the proverbial bread crumbs. It is your responsibility as a debater to keep track of the evidence, not just provide it.
You bring up two characters in different contexts and who are known in lore to be lesser skilled than Yoda. Your point of reference is skewed, and you are still digressing by looking away from either Yoda or Khan in this debate.
I hope you realize that you keep trimming your own point. First Yoda cannot defend against rapid firing weapons, then he cannot defend against Khan's specific weapons. Now, he can defend himself, but against what you claim to be lesser skilled opponents, and only with the aid of a character who moments before you said was essentially worthless and now say is more than capable. It would help this debate as a whole if you would establish your ideas and stand behind them.
Here, of course, stems the entirety of thread, our difference of opinions. Still, after thirty-five or so pages, I suppose reminding each other might come in handy. Ergo, I think Yoda can jump and take Khan's head off with one smooth swipe of his lightsaber so fast, Khan won't have time to widen his eyes in surprise let alone raise either gun to shoot with.
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Khan misses a running Klingon. Perhaps he was aiming at someone else wit those 3 shots?
Khan then fires at 2 Klingons, but his shot goes over their heads and hits the ground behind them. Unless Khan was aiming at the ground, that is called a miss. Sure, he hits one of them after, but a miss is a miss. Out of 3 shots, Khan hits once.
Finally, several Klingons drop in on lines and Khan fires at them twice. He misses both shots, instead going way over their heads and hitting the wall behind them. Was he aiming at the wall?
So based on the overwhelming evidence, Khan is far from a perfect shot. In fact, his primary tactic in this fight appears to the "spray and pray" method, simply sweeping the enemy with burst fire. He only really aims with his big gun during this.
I suppose you could say we don't see the entire scene, but I don't see how that would be possible unless I were to screenshot the entire fight one frame at a time. It is an unreasonable demand, and any context it may or may not provide is irrelevant to the fact that Khan missed. It does not matter why Khan missed, only that he did, as that is the argument. This only serves to disprove claims of Khan's supposedly perfect accuracy. Further, Khan hits the walls or ground at several points during the fight, so you can't say he was aiming elsewhere unless you want to claim he meant to do that. The fact of the matter is, Khan can miss. He isn't perfect.
Why would that even be a bad thing, though? He still succeeded, he still won the fight, and he still hit quite a few targets. He's not a failure, he's just not perfect. Still loses to Yoda, but that's nothing to be ashamed of either.
Originally posted by XanatosForeverI am looking at both and against a superior character who actually beat Palpatine unlike Yoda.
The time it took you to ask that question would have been better spent following the proverbial bread crumbs. It is your responsibility as a debater to keep track of the evidence, not just provide it.You bring up two characters in different contexts and who are known in lore to be lesser skilled than Yoda. Your point of reference is skewed, and you are still digressing by looking away from either Yoda or Khan in this debate.
I hope you realize that you keep trimming your own point. First Yoda cannot defend against rapid firing weapons, then he cannot defend against Khan's specific weapons. Now, he can defend himself, but against what you claim to be lesser skilled opponents, and only with the aid of a character who moments before you said was essentially worthless and now say is more than capable. It would help this debate as a whole if you would establish your ideas and stand behind them.
Here, of course, stems the entirety of thread, our difference of opinions. Still, after thirty-five or so pages, I suppose reminding each other might come in handy. Ergo, I think Yoda can jump and take Khan's head off with one smooth swipe of his lightsaber so fast, Khan won't have time to widen his eyes in surprise let alone raise either gun to shoot with.
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Yoda can defend himself but we've never seen him defend against successive blasts by someone with the firepower Khan brings to the table.
Yoda has never done so in the fashion in which you describe so as I stated eloquently 35 pages ago. Khan wins. On another level and always ready.
Originally posted by The ScenarioThese are still unclear shots and despite your are attempts to prove otherwise one thing is clear. Khan eradicated all those who stood against him.
Khan misses a running Klingon. Perhaps he was aiming at someone else wit those 3 shots?Khan then fires at 2 Klingons, but his shot goes over their heads and hits the ground behind them. Unless Khan was aiming at the ground, that is called a miss. Sure, he hits one of them after, but a miss is a miss. Out of 3 shots, Khan hits once.
Finally, several Klingons drop in on lines and Khan fires at them twice. He misses both shots, instead going way over their heads and hitting the wall behind them. Was he aiming at the wall?
So based on the overwhelming evidence, Khan is far from a perfect shot. In fact, his primary tactic in this fight appears to the "spray and pray" method, simply sweeping the enemy with burst fire. He only really aims with his big gun during this.
I suppose you could say we don't see the entire scene, but I don't see how that would be possible unless I were to screenshot the entire fight one frame at a time. It is an unreasonable demand, and any context it may or may not provide is irrelevant to the fact that Khan missed. It does not matter why Khan missed, only that he did, as that is the argument. This only serves to disprove claims of Khan's supposedly perfect accuracy. Further, Khan hits the walls or ground at several points during the fight, so you can't say he was aiming elsewhere unless you want to claim he meant to do that. The fact of the matter is, Khan can miss. He isn't perfect.
Why would that even be a bad thing, though? He still succeeded, he still won the fight, and he still hit quite a few targets. He's not a failure, he's just not perfect. Still loses to Yoda, but that's nothing to be ashamed of either.
Khan has taken down an entire squadron of Klingons all converging on him with relative ease. Yoda has also been blocked and been unable to kill or even beat someone of considerable skill.
Based on the evidence Khan wins. So just refrain from all your futile attempts at proving Khan missed since he did not but the major point is they all went down all the same.
End result is the same, Khan wins.
Originally posted by quanchi112
These are still unclear shots and despite your are attempts to prove otherwise one thing is clear. Khan eradicated all those who stood against him.
What would you have me do get a clear shot?
Here, check 1:40 in the video: http://youtu.be/K0cFLb-JmaQ?t=1m40s
If your iPad supports it, there's even a little "settings" button that will allow you to watch the scene in slow motion.
Still, have a series of screenshots.
Khan has taken down an entire squadron of Klingons all converging on him with relative ease. Yoda has also been blocked and been unable to kill or even beat someone of considerable skill.
I'm not talking about Yoda right now. I'm discussing the indisputable fact that Khan missed several times in this battle.
Based on the evidence Khan wins. So just refrain from all your futile attempts at proving Khan missed since he did not but the major point is they all went down all the same.
What evidence do you speak of? Because based on my evidence, Khan has missed. I'm curious what you seem to be seeing here that is different from everyone else. Should I get out the Rorschach test?
End result is the same, Khan wins.
I don't much care about the end result. Khan pretty clearly missed that guy. 3 times.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I am looking at both and against a superior character who actually beat Palpatine unlike Yoda.Yoda can defend himself but we've never seen him defend against successive blasts by someone with the firepower Khan brings to the table.
Yoda has never done so in the fashion in which you describe so as I stated eloquently 35 pages ago. Khan wins. On another level and always ready.
So you admit not only to digression by bringing evidence of separate characters who are no way involved in this fight, but are including yet two more characters? This alone steers the debate farther off-topic than it has been between us for some time, including my hiatus. It also looks poorly on you. For your own sake, I urge you to cease digressing.
Okay, so you're establishing a point from which you will be defending. Good. Now, please provide evidence that Khan's weaponry is more powerful than the arsenal Yoda has faced, particularly the assault rifle type weapon that can fire "successive blasts", as you state it.
On the contrary, Yoda has most certainly decapitated someone with ease while jumping. The claim in question here would be yours, especially with as vague a description as you put.
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