Why do people here take Jacque Fresco's work as a not serious/not plausible society?

Originally posted by Dolos
Autonomous systems, controlled by cybernated networks, monitoring and accounting for the sufficient resources.

Wizard did it.

Originally posted by Dolos

I'm not convinced.

Where are they? Why are they not used? Who is hiding them from us?

Wouldn't be so sure about that. We have nano-processors, on the brink of quantum computers.

Originally posted by Dolos

As for developing these systems, yes, people will be making them. Design-phase jobs will be the only human jobs, probably 4 days a week, for 4 hours a day. The rest of the day we can go chill.

But this is not based on anything resembling fact. This is just something you said. There's nothing to indicate this.

And what do Quantum Computer have to do with anything?

Originally posted by Dolos

What?

I think small groups of people making functional systems, or cities like these are a good start.

As far as I know there isn't a functional city like that though (cause it doesn't work).

Originally posted by Dolos
What's so unrealistic about that kind of technology?

But I didn't say it was unrealistic. You did. I said it was less realistic than the aspirations of the Mars Society. Intentionally misquoting people is one of the most annoying things you can do in a forum debate.

I sound like a repeat of this video:

YouTube video

I am glad I got this debate going, though.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
If you must ask, what's unrealistic about it is that at the moment it's mostly theory.

But I didn't say it was unrealistic. You did. I said it was less realistic than the aspirations of the Mars Society. Intentionally misquoting people is one of the most annoying things you can do in a forum debate.

The Mars society is a space colony that would most likely receive far more resources and be far more likely to succeed in and from a global cybernated technocracy than it is now.

YouTube video

Originally posted by Dolos
The Mars society is a space colony that would most likely receive far more resources and be far more likely to succeed in and from a global cybernated technocracy than it is now.

YouTube video

Before you say anything, I do believe that manned missions to Mars are in the near future, and permanent settlement may even happen in my lifetime (I hope it does), but actually terraforming Mars so that it becomes as fertile as Earth, which last I checked is what the Mars Society aims for, is centuries off, if it's possible at all. If I live to be a hundred the best I can see is that Mars is like Antartica is now: not too hard to reach, with some permanent scientific bases, but no large-scale habitats.

Look at how much the world has changed in the last 100 years compared to the 100 years before that?

How can you be so pessimistic about the Venus Project?

It's cool you're looking up things like the Mars Society, though.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I
But I didn't say it was unrealistic. You did. I said it was less realistic than the aspirations of the Mars Society. Intentionally misquoting people is one of the most annoying things you can do in a forum debate.

Intentionally misquoting people is much more annoying in non-written debates, as you can't go back and check.

does the OP really use the Animatrix as part of a question about why their ideas aren't taken seriously?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Wizard did it.

Where are they? Why are they not used? Who is hiding them from us?

From what I've read, we've had the technology for quite some time.

No one is hiding it, and the only reason it's not being used is because of the free-enterprise system. Money is so bad that's it's devolving human civilization. 😠 😮‍💨

The Venus Project plans to have a working city by 2050 onward.

Originally posted by Oliver North
does the OP really use the Animatrix as part of a question about why their ideas aren't taken seriously?

No, I used it as a comparison, to help explain myself in any way I could.

I think I've explained it better and more realistically in the posts afterward, don't you?

Originally posted by Dolos
Look at how much the world has changed in the last 100 years compared to the 100 years before that?

How can you be so pessimistic about the Venus Project?

It's cool you're looking up things like the Mars Society, though.

When it comes to scifi cybernetics and the like bores me. It's all about lasers, hyperdrives, planoforming, and somehow making sword-fighting militarily relevant again.

Originally posted by Dolos
No, I used it as a comparison, to help explain myself in any way I could.

I think I've explained it better and more realistically in the posts afterward, don't you?

sure

and a more serious answer would sound like the answers I've given you on a lot of other topics. Even if I thought TVP were desirable or plausible or beneficial (which I don't), the transition and implementation of such a system would create such immense problems. Again, what does TVP do about the Arab-Israeli conflict? Does Israel, a Western ally, get the technology and the ability to use it as a form of subjugation over the Palestinians? Because that is the most likely scenario....

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I'm not pessimistic, I'm just not going to lie to myself and pretend that technology is more advanced than it is or that little groups with utopian aspirations can ever change the world when all other such projects have been failures.

When it comes to scifi cybernetics and the like bores me. It's all about lasers, hyperdrives, planoforming, and somehow making sword-fighting militarily relevant again.

I'd like to see your face if you saw conclusive evidence that our computers are advanced enough, our robotics and factories complex enough to do it all without us...if we'd but build the damn system.

Originally posted by Oliver North
sure

and a more serious answer would sound like the answers I've given you on a lot of other topics. Even if I thought TVP were desirable or plausible or beneficial (which I don't), the transition and implementation of such a system would create such immense problems. Again, what does TVP do about the Arab-Israeli conflict? Does Israel, a Western ally, get the technology and the ability to use it as a form of subjugation over the Palestinians? Because that is the most likely scenario....

If the Israelites could set it up that way...but they'd be less likely than leaving it to a Cybernated Government because there'd be no one for the design-phase careers to keep the system up to date and maintained.

Why don't you think the system itself is plausible?

Originally posted by Dolos
I'd like to see your face if you saw conclusive evidence that our computers are advanced enough, our robotics and factories complex enough to do it all without us...if we'd but build the damn system.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I would love to see my face too. Too bad neither of us will.

That's cause you're not looking, and I don't know where to look.

I'm saying, you don't know whether we have that kind of capability, just because we aren't doing it.

In the future they may have a working city.

Originally posted by Dolos
If the Israelites could set it up that way...but they'd be less likely than leaving it to a Cybernated Government because there'd be no one for the design-phase careers to keep the system up to date and maintained.

ya, the Israeli's have one of the most theocratic wings to their government on the planet, they aren't going to be leaving major military decisions up to a computer any time soon.

Originally posted by Dolos
Why don't you think the system itself is plausible?

a mixture of basic human psychology and the fact that there have never been any successful large societies that have been organized from the top down like that. People are too varied in large numbers for the type of organization necessary.

Originally posted by Oliver North
ya, the Israeli's have one of the most theocratic wings to their government on the planet, they aren't going to be leaving major military decisions up to a computer any time soon.

Than their system will be fundamentally flawed.

a mixture of basic human psychology and the fact that there have never been any successful large societies that have been organized from the top down like that. People are too varied in large numbers for the type of organization necessary.

But a group...

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

Originally posted by Dolos
Than their system will be fundamentally flawed.

so you get my point then, right? the real world implementation of things like TVP will be imperfect in ways that exacerbate already existing divisions in society, and we would be much better off looking to fix those issues rather than looking for sci fi tech?

Originally posted by Dolos
But a group...

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

that has nothing to do with my point...

yes, the small group of people who ran the soviet union were able to change the world. they were, however, unsuccessful in organizing an economy in a top down way, and their utopian ideals proved more harmful than beneficial and entirely undesirable.

Originally posted by Oliver North
so you get my point then, right? the real world implementation of things like TVP will be imperfect in ways that exacerbate already existing divisions in society, and we would be much better off looking to fix those issues rather than looking for sci fi tech?

What if there is no fix to the human condition?

This is where my posthumanism stance emerges.

I don't think humans should run other humans.

that has nothing to do with my point...

yes, the small group of people who ran the soviet union were able to change the world. they were, however, unsuccessful of organizing an economy in a top down way, and their utopian ideals proved more harmful than beneficial and entirely undesirable.

This isn't the Soviet Union. You can't just say it won't work just because totally different systems in the past have failed.