Edward Snowden thread

Originally posted by Lestov16
And who is bringing this tyranny? Is the NSA breaking into people's homes because they said they don't like Obama or Bush? And hypothetical 1984 scenarios are improbable unless the US undergoes a massive policy shift, which will not be done without the consent of the American people.

The totalitarian Ingsoc government you're trying to portray the US government as is simply false. It may not be perfect, and there are some self-serving politicians out here, but it is predominantly a democracy. The government turning into a tyranny is possible, but would involve unpredictable circumstances to occur.

Originally posted by Newjak
So you would be okay with a King as long they prevented crime and didn't abuse their power?

The POTUS is not equivalent to the NSA database. It will exist no matter what ruler is in charge. The ones in charge now, and even Bush, did not abuse the system. And while it could hypothetically happen in the future, the circumstances would be so dire, they would be unpredictable at this current time.

Originally posted by Newjak
Most slimey people don't go around advertising they are slimy. It's a gradual decline in freedoms. That's how it works.

Again, the American people will not allow their freedoms to be taken away from them when the core of American ideology is democratic freedom.

There's a difference between the NSA intercepting your call and putting it into a database never to be used again, and using your call to arrest you because you disagree with the POTUS's policies, which is what you are trying to say will happen.

The NSA database is like a nuke, a powerful weapon, but one that must be wielded by responsible parties only.

Originally posted by Newjak
Did I say the government has reached that part yet. I even said it's a gradual decline over time. But the most prominent ways these things happen are people willing giving government more power which can be easily abused.Something the NSA now has.

So you think a few years down the road, people will just be giving up free speech and freedom of the press, with no backlash whatsoever?

Originally posted by Lestov16
So you think a few years down the road, people will just be giving up free speech and freedom of the press, with no backlash whatsoever?

I mean how much reward does this system really offer? What are the odds it actually catches someone, what are the odds innocent people get abused by it? All things needed to be considered.

But we haven't reached that point yet. The reason there isn't too much fervor about the NSA situation is because we know there are laws in place which will protect us from government persecution with the system. I'm just saying that it will be incredibly difficult to get rid of stuff like free speech, when it is the basis of American ideology. The NSA database does nothing to halt people's free speech.

I'd say the odds are about the same. And innocent people will only get abused if the American people allow that to happen, which they won't. You'd have to be crazy to think the US public would be nonchalant if people were persecuted for their political views.

I think an even more interesting aspect of this rather than the NSA database is the effect this is having on international affairs.

Originally posted by Oliver North
we don't have NSA spying, we foil essentially all terror plots against us...

in argument against my own position, it turns out some advanced spying may have actually been what prevented the Canada day bombings...

As I stated before, surveillance is like a nuke. It can serve as a powerful weapon, but it's the wielder who must be monitored.

Listening to NPR the transit zone that Snowden is in is essentially an area where the Russian government has declared certain laws and rights to not apply, specifically to prevent unwanted immigration. Lots of governments realized they could do this on the same basis as duty free zones.

What truth was everyone so shocked about? REALLY what truth? Didn't people already know this was going on? i mean really, when i first heard about this i was asking the question, who did he sell the information too? By giving secrets to other countries, youre being an *******. That's all that is. It benefits no one here and everyone that didn't know they were being monitored on the internet, well...,welcome to having a brain.

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
What truth was everyone so shocked about? REALLY what truth? Didn't people already know this was going on? i mean really, when i first heard about this i was asking the question, who did he sell the information too? By giving secrets to other countries, youre being an *******. That's all that is. It benefits no one here and everyone that didn't know they were being monitored on the internet, well...,welcome to having a brain.

I used to be in the same boat as you, regarding this, until I read this article:

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/07/5-things-snowden-leaks-revealed-about-nsas-original-warrantless-wiretaps/

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
What truth was everyone so shocked about? REALLY what truth? Didn't people already know this was going on? i mean really, when i first heard about this i was asking the question, who did he sell the information too? By giving secrets to other countries, youre being an *******. That's all that is. It benefits no one here and everyone that didn't know they were being monitored on the internet, well...,welcome to having a brain.

then there is no reason to charge him with anything, right?

certainly no reason for an international man-hunt or grounding the planes of foreign leaders, right?

damn, the American intelligence apparatus is acting like a frightened child...

YouTube video
YouTube video

YouTube video

Originally posted by Oliver North
then there is no reason to charge him with anything, right?

certainly no reason for an international man-hunt or grounding the planes of foreign leaders, right?

I have no idea how you inferred that from my post but, no, I do not believe this guy deserves amnesty. Working for the NSA and regarding our laws, yea, he needs to be found and tried for treason. I was just asking why everyone was so shocked? Thought most of this shit was common knowledge since the patriot act.

actually, what snowden revealed violated the patriot act...

Originally posted by Oliver North
actually, what snowden revealed violated the patriot act...

And said act has provisions that violate the constitution and is, therefore, illegal without an Amendment that validates the Patriot Act's currently illegal provisions.

The Patriot Act needs to be just thrown out.

Isn't that for the supreme court to decide?

Originally posted by Bardock42
Isn't that for the supreme court to decide?

Thankfully, no. Being an educated citizen is all you need to determine whether or not some provisions of a law or constitutional or not. What the Supreme Court decides is not necessarily fact or correct...it's the thing that legally counts.

But, so you know, some Federal Courts have already determined that some provisions were unconstitutional. 🙂 Google.