to clarify--pg drafted classic machine man, correct? i mean this body isn't the sentinel upgraded version? i mean this one:
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i was doing a little research and that sentinel version (a) doesn't have enough appearances (at least i don't think it does as the appearance limit was 10 i thought....) and (b) there is no way THAT version wasn't at LEAST low herald imo. so i just wanted to double check with both pg and curry which version of mm he's using in this thing.
yep, fear. 😐 anyway, even if he's AT low herald he's..... still outside caps.... and the way he easily tore up the xmen and brotherhood and dealt with multiple sentinels shows he's not high meta. and as i said, that was a different body altogether from the classic one so that version of the body still lacks the number of appearances anyway. that'd be like me taking spiderman then saying i'm taking the cap universe spidey. it's still spidey, he's just been slightly upgraded. lol i'd ask anyone to look through the x-51 series and tell me that that character is high meta. he clearly seemed beyond the durability cap for certain. but like i said, that body doesn't have the requisite number of appearances anyway. curry, i'll ask for a ruling from you directly before it figure out what i'm doing in the match.
I'm somewhat familiar with X-51, so I may be able to chime in. It's unlikely we can nail down a tier placement for the upgraded version, but the "new villain" jobber aura did paint him in an intimidating light, even compared to other high metas. He wrecked Vision, for example. I doubt we can say he's low herald for sure, though.
That said, if PG is maintaining that it's the same, original or upgraded, I'll be honest and say that LOT of the useful feats he has are from the original version. Yes, upgraded had a few badass ones, but it shouldn't nerf his pick into oblivion to ban the upgrade.
I also don't know that there's proof that upgraded has access to all "classic" powers. It's not an outlandish assumption, but I'm not sure we have proof either way.
Also, I asked a couple times during drafts for a version that was drafted (not knowing who drafted him). Problems that could have been addressed earlier had we all just listened to Digi...
uhuh
Leo makes some decent points. Hopefully curry considers them. But I also think it may be something we should have brought up specifically during drafts. He's not so obviously beyond the line that we should be banning him mid-tourney. That's my take. Sorry leo.
Originally posted by psycho gundam
so was ultimo
I addressed every complaint about Ultimo during drafts. The debate on him was completely transparent. With X-51, I asked multiple times and no one responded. So no, it's not the same.
That said, I'm actually on your side on this one. If it were me, I probably wouldn't ban him.
Originally posted by Digi
I'm somewhat familiar with X-51, so I may be able to chime in. It's unlikely we can nail down a tier placement for the upgraded version, but the "new villain" jobber aura did paint him in an intimidating light, even compared to other high metas. He wrecked Vision, for example. I doubt we can say he's low herald for sure, though.That said, if PG is maintaining that it's the same, original or upgraded, I'll be honest and say that LOT of the useful feats he has are from the original version. Yes, upgraded had a few badass ones, but it shouldn't nerf his pick into oblivion to ban the upgrade.
I also don't know that there's proof that upgraded has access to all "classic" powers. It's not an outlandish assumption, but I'm not sure we have proof either way.
Also, I asked a couple times during drafts for a version that was drafted (not knowing who drafted him). Problems that could have been addressed earlier had we all just listened to Digi...
uhuh
sentinel mm didn't have access to classic mm's powers. his body was completely destroyed and rebuilt. and while i agree the tier placement is difficult, it is only difficult BECAUSE that body/version didn't have enough appearances to make an accurate determination. which was the other main point i was getting across. the body needs at least 10 appearances. that body doesn't have them. i really don't think it's nerfing at all to say he gets the classic version who has dozens of appearances and tons of great feats.
that said, if pg feels so strongly that he'll back out without that version, then he can keep him. i'm not trying to chase him out. your question SHOULD have been addressed at the start. i didn't really know much about him at all, so the version question wasn't for me to determine. based on the limited time he was shown though, i'd say he was def above high meta.
The Tier list isn't perfect.
But he's been drafted as high meta, passed through the draft without any incident, and I think it would be in really-really poor taste to make PG redraft at this point 🙂
The character isn't blatantly overpowered and aside from Leonidas' reasonable drafts, everybody got a character that was at the very least a high meta/low herald borderline case (Pitt, Ultimo, etc), and as such I'd rather we just let X-51 stay.
Any judges have an opinion on this? (Cba to pm everyone)
huh? it's not a false distinction at all. you said you drafted machine man. it should go without saying you GET machine man. the one with the body that has enough appearances and is definitely within the bounds of this tourney. in fact the sentinel version was so different from the classic version that the programming overrode aaron's own personality and had to be wiped out altogether. so technically, it was barely even stacks' mind, let alone body. now, had mm upgraded HIMSELF somehow, upgraded his old body, that would be different. he didn't. he was literally rebuilt for a couple issues and you get THAT version? i'm really not trying to be a d!ck, it just seems odd to me. anyway, i made my point and now i'll drop it. i guess there''s always the fact that judges can make up their own minds about things anyway, so i'm fine with just moving on with the match and i'll go under the assumption you have nimrod, er, sentinel machine man..... 😖hifty:
when does it start anyway? i'll be gone monday and tuesday but should be able to get an OP in on wed or def thursday by the latest. if i get time tonight i MIGHT even be able to send something along to curry tonight, but that's really iffy.....
