Originally posted by Galan007
The suit weakens him because it has a tensile strength of OVER 280,000lbs per square inch and is completely unjointed:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs0.jpg.html
So the simple act of CS moving would require him to exert hundreds of thousands of pounds of force. Uber.
Originally posted by TheGodKillerIf you aren't at least slightly impressed by the forces required to bend Steel's suit, then you either don't understand what those numbers mean, or you are simply lowballing.
Color me not impressed.
Just for CS to bend a single square inch of his suit requires him to exert over 280,000psi. That said, the hand of an average adult male is roughly 21 square inches-- so in order for CS to preform an action as simple as making a fist requires him to exert a total force of nearly 6,000,000psi.
...And all of that is simply to neuter his overall strength just enough so he doesn't destroy everyone/thing he touches. Sorry, but this is impressive.
Originally posted by Galan007
If you aren't at least slightly impressed by the forces required to bend Steel's suit, then you either don't understand what those numbers mean, or you are simply lowballing.Just for CS to bend a single square inch of his suit requires him to exert over 280,000psi. That said, the hand of an average adult male is roughly 21 square inches-- so in order for CS to form a fist requires him to exert a total force of nearly 6,000,000psi.
...And all of that is simply to neuter his overall strength just enough so he doesn't injure/kill everyone/thing he touches. Sorry, but this is impressive.
Also, there's a real-life nickel-beryllium alloy that has the same tensile strength as that fictional stainless steel alloy, and I am willing to wager that people like Thor or Hulk could easily rip it apart without breaking a sweat, were it ever referenced in a comic.
Know what you're talking about, before talking about it.
Edit: Also, stop confusing psi with pounds of force. CS would need to exert 6000000 lbs of force to form a fist, the psi number remains the same.
Originally posted by TheGodKillerI know exactly what I'm talking about, friend-- my thorough post above should have certainly been indicative of such. Don't talk crap just to talk crap. It's unbecoming.
I know perfectly well what those numbers mean, and I also know that such level of force is nowhere near the run of the mill strength feats high heralds have managed to perform in the past.Also, there's a real-life nickel-beryllium alloy that has the same tensile strength as that fictional stainless steel alloy, and I am willing to wager that people like Thor or Hulk could easily rip it apart without breaking a sweat, were it ever referenced in a comic.
Know what you're talking about, before talking about it.
Additionally, I never once claimed that bending CS's armor is a feat beyond the ability of any herald, so I don't know where your delusional rant even stems from..? All I am saying is that CS casually bending his armor is an impressive feat, all things considered. I mean, if it takes a force of nearly 6,000,000lbs for him to simply make a fist, just imagine the forces he has to generate while actively fighting-- here's a visual example:
Tens of millions as a conservative estimate. And remember: he doesn't have to exert himself in the slightest to bend the armor-- all he does is move like he normally would.
At any rate, the force CS exerts against his armor to merely dampen his strength enough to not crush everything he touches is impressive whether you'd like to admit it or not.
280000 pounds per square inch (about 140 short tons) , is decent. Though Impressive is a relative term and depends on what class of being that is being discussed. For a top tier brick, ala hulk or superman or Thor it is well within their abilities and wouldn't even be a high feat. Still it isn't a sign of weakness or anything and is respectable enough.
Originally posted by Galan007
The suit weakens him because it has a tensile strength of OVER 280,000lbs per square inch and is completely unjointed:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs0.jpg.html
So the simple act of CS moving would require him to exert hundreds of thousands of pounds of force. Uber.On that note, CS shredding/crumpling his suit like cheap toilet paper is an extremely uber strength feat in its own right:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs4.jpg.htmlAs was mentioned, CS not only tanked a punch from Gog(the JSA-wrecker), but he tooled him with a single shot:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs1.jpg.html
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs2.jpg.html
...Not even Source-amped Infinity Man was able to tool Gog in an equal amount of time.And finally: after removing his armor, CS was able to down Gog(the God,) with a mere two punches:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs5.jpg.html
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs6.jpg.htmlNot even the combined efforts of the entire JSA (inc. KC Superman, Alan Scott, Obsidian, Thunderbolt, etc) were able to come close to doing that:
http://s238.photobucket.com/user/Galan_photos/media/cs3.jpg.html
Niiice!? 👆
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Citizen Steel toppled Gog by going for his ankle while the JSA tried to pull him down. And it was after Atom reduced his body to a mess, I even remember his arm barely holding out IIRC. Two completely different methods of approach on a body in completely different conditions.There was a reason why Superman was able to casually rip off his head. Context is important. Also, there's a big difference in between pushing over a building and taking one down by removing a support beam. Steel is nowhere near as strong as Kurse from what I remember.
The fact that he was able to knock Gog over when the combined JSA couldn't (a JSA that would phuck over Kurse something awful) speaks volumes. Add that to his other feats, and I think it becomes more clear.
Originally posted by Naija boyI never argued that bending the armor puts CS above any herald(s). However, it is impressive. 👆
280000 pounds per square inch (about 140 short tons) , is decent. Though Impressive is a relative term and depends on what class of being that is being discussed. For a top tier brick, ala hulk or superman or Thor it is well within their abilities and wouldn't even be a high feat. Still it isn't a sign of weakness or anything and is respectable enough.
Originally posted by abhilegend
No need to send a PM. Here's the scan courtesy of Galan.Gog vs KC Superman/Amazin man
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/?action=view¤t=jsagog_jsa7.jpg
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/?action=view¤t=jsagog_jsa8.jpg
http://s272.photobucket.com/albums/jj172/galan007_pics/?action=view¤t=jsagog_jsa9.jpgKTFO both and choking them like a ***** with one hand.
Gog vs Steel
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/?action=view¤t=cs1.jpg
http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/?action=view¤t=cs2.jpg
Can I have the issue number just the same?
Impressive, but again, context bro. He took out Superman with a cheap shot from behind and his energy or whatever. He didn't just straight out choke Superman to the point he couldn't free himself. Even if Citizen Steel is three times stronger then Superman, he should still be stronger then Gog.
Also, God. Superman went down like a *****. Power Girl even rocked his shit with a brief blast of heat vision in the first issue I opened, I'm hopping he doesn't job throughout the whole run.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Also you made it look like downing Gog was no feat at all. Look who is trying to drop him here?http://s238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/?action=view¤t=cs3.jpg
Not even the combined efforts of the entire JSA (inc. KC Superman, Alan Scott, Obsidian, Thunderbolt, etc) were able to come close to doing that.
He's much stronger than KC Superman, much less superman.
What? When did I do that? It was impressive, I never said otherwise, I simply pointed out the context.
Yes, but again, all of this was before a huge energy blast:
This effected him extremely because they were able to easily decapitate him:
Again, it is impressive. But posting a feat that Thor can easily accomplish with a hammer shot is not note worthy in a thread with Kurse.
Originally posted by Cogito
Atom did nothing to Gog. He laughed it off. As for Steel, he knocked Gog down by the ankles. It's not like removing a support beam, it's all about the center of gravity. Try pushing a real person over by their ankles...it's a phucking hell of a lot harder than pushing on their shoulders.The fact that he was able to knock Gog over when the combined JSA couldn't (a JSA that would phuck over Kurse something awful) speaks volumes. Add that to his other feats, and I think it becomes more clear.
It didn't hurt him but it did critical damage to his put together body. If not, how were they able to easily hold him him down and decaptate him when previously they couldn't budge it? Was it all a coincidence? Did Steel break off his ankle?
Very impressive, but much less so with context.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusWhere's your "at least half" figure coming from? Because if CS were forced to use "at least half" of his strength just to function with the suit on, I'd *think* he would be exerting himself a LOT more than he does when he moves. However, he appears to move around just as effortlessly as he normally does.
Guys, lets not lowball. Using that suit is impressive.However, it limiting his strength by at least half, is not. Especially not in a thread with someone almost four times stronger then Thor.
I have no doubt that the suit dampens his strength to some degree(exerting millionS of pounds of force just to raise an arm would dampen almost any character.) However, I just don't know if it cuts his power by at least half...
Originally posted by Galan007
Where's your "at least half" figure coming from? Because if CS were forced to use "at least half" of his strength just to function with the suit on, I'd *think* he would be exerting himself a LOT more than he does when he moves. However, he appears to move around just as effortlessly as he normally does.I have no doubt that the suit dampens his strength to some degree(exerting millionS of tons of force just to raise an arm would dampen almost any character.) However, I just don't know if it cuts his power by at least half...
I got it from your own scan lol:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/cs0.jpg
Second last panel. They said it should cut his strength by at least half. The whole point of the suit is that it weakens him enough so he can interact with things.
Again impressive compared to others, but in a thread with someone like Thor much less Kurse? Makes him look weak when half of Kurse's strength can accomplish this (Aided by Mjolnir):
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ShattersCelestialArmor1.jpg
http://i779.photobucket.com/albums/yy73/R-O-G/Thor/ShattersCelestialArmor2.jpg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusThat was Doctor Midnite's opinion, hence his use of the word "should".
I got it from your own scan lol:
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff191/Galan_photos/cs0.jpgSecond last panel. They said it should cut his strength by at least half. The whole point of the suit is that it weakens him enough so he can interact with things.
Again impressive compared to others, but in a thread with someone like Thor much less Kurse? Makes him look weak imho.
CS himself has stated that the suit merely slows his movements down, which makes sense:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16108157/3.jpg.html
So yeah, I wouldn't bank on the "at least half" statement. If that really were true, then it means CS was able to tool JSA-wrecker/herald Gog at half power-- ie. CS @ 50% power>Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman.
I doubt you're ready to start that shit-storm. 😉
Originally posted by Naija boyLol, yeah. Typo.
Millions of tons of force? From all indication its millions of pounds isn't it?
Originally posted by Galan007
That was Doctor Midnite's opinion, hence his use of the word "should".CS himself has stated that the suit merely slows his movements down:
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/16108157/3.jpg.htmlSo yeah, I wouldn't bank at the "at least half" statement. If that really were true, then it means CS was able to slap around JSA-wrecker/herald Gog at half power-- ie. CS @ 50% power>Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman.
I doubt you're ready to start that shit-storm. 😉
I don't know, that entire statement seemed to pretty clearly give us the writer's opinion and how the suit operated. Why do you take one half of the sentence as fact but ignore the other?
He says that the suit slows him down, not that this is it's only function. The suit also weakens him pretty drastically to the point he doesn't kill anyone he touches. He took it off when he faced Gog for a reason, it was his version of cutting loose.
Lol, but I always thought the suit cut his power in half since the very first time I read that issue. It was a pretty clearly an explanation on how it worked. I have no problem, if Citizen Steel shits on Superman strength wise. Although I don't know if I agree with that. Gog being stronger than even Wonder Woman is probably not something I'd not agree with.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusSo iyo: CS @ 50% power>Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman, but even at 100% power(ie. w/o the suit) he would struggle with Thor or Kurse? Hm, interesting.
I don't know, that entire statement seemed to pretty clearly give us the writer's opinion and how the suit operated.He says that the suit slows him down, not that this is it's only function. The suit also weakens him pretty drastically to the point he doesn't kill anyone he touches.
Lol, but I always thought the suit cut his power in half since the very first time I read that issue. It was a pretty clearly an explanation on how it worked. I have no problem, if Citizen Steel shits on Superman strength wise.
Originally posted by Galan007
So iyo: CS @ 50% power>Gog>KC Superman>mainstream Superman, but even at 100% power(ie. w/o the suit) he would struggle with Thor or Kurse? Hm, interesting.
Yup. Superman is just a weak fob. 😉
But honestly, I don't believe that Citizen Steel would ever beat mainstream Superman in a fight, suit or not. But that's just my gut feeling, don't take it as gospel.
I'm not going to ignore evidence just because it might be uncomfortable or inconvenient
