Originally posted by Golgo13
Zoom can attack him from different time points. He doesn't need to be in the area. 😉
Surfer just traps Zoom's soul and bio-energies on an asteroid or into his board.
Actually, that would be the most in-character thing for him to do to an annoyance. Just trap him in his board and carry on with his beautiful day of space surfing and being shiny.
Originally posted by Golgo13You're trying to combat the idea of Surfer being powerful enough to blow up the planet with Professor Zoom running on thin air.
I consider it, because it's been done before. It's happened more times than Surfer blowing up a planet.
Firstly, that doesn't strike me as being an effective counterpoint at all. Second, you might want to try showing some actual scans of Professor Zoom doing this to validate the idea in the first place.
Until then, it isn't a consideration serious enough or even proven enough to merit a response.
Originally posted by ODG
You're trying to combat the idea of Surfer being powerful enough to blow up the planet with Professor Zoom running on thin air.Firstly, that doesn't strike me as being an effective counterpoint at all. Second, you might want to try showing some actual scans of Professor Zoom doing this to validate the idea in the first place.
Until then, it isn't a consideration serious enough or even proven enough to merit a response.
Surfer wouldn't do that in the first place, so it's not important. I've seen multiple flash's do it, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Just my opinion.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Has Zoom ever travelled to a timeline outside of Earth, tho?Just curious as time travel is considered self-BFR here, isn't it?
Like Flashpoint one? Anyway, here is the scans of what he has done.
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=437949&pagenumber=6
Originally posted by Golgo13But Professor Zoom would do something that we've so far not even seen him do on-panel yet. That's what is important to you. Your rationales are so utterly disconnected that I'm not even sure whether you're serious or not.
Surfer wouldn't do that in the first place, so it's not important.
Originally posted by Golgo13But we get it. Something that we've never seen Professor Zoom do at all on-panel (so far), serves to protect him from something Surfer has done on-panel when he gets serious enough against that level of opponent.
I've seen multiple flash's do it, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. Just my opinion.
👆
Originally posted by ODG
But Professor Zoom would do something that we've so far not even seen him do on-panel yet. That's what is important to you. Your rationales are so utterly disconnected that I'm not even sure whether you're serious or not. But we get it. Something that we've never seen Professor Zoom do at all on-panel (so far), serves to protect him from something Surfer has done on-panel when he gets serious enough against that level of opponent.👆
When has Surfer blown up a planet? When has Surfer stopped someone from a time stop or erasing their existence or a de aging? I'm seeing that Surfer is versatile, but it's not going to protect him from someone on Zoom's level.
Originally posted by Golgo13
When has Surfer blown up a planet? When has Surfer stopped someone from a time stop or erasing their existence or a de aging? I'm seeing that Surfer is versatile, but it's not going to protect him from someone on Zoom's level.
Surfer also created a blackhole so powerful that Skreet and Thanos were endangered by it, during another incident.
Surfer has healed Thor from life threatening injury, he's turned artificial intelligence into life and he's evolved a whole planet so "ageing and de-ageing" is nothing - literally an insignificant particle of that feat.
Surfer has also tanked Bannerless Hulk's ferocious attacks, survived an extended attack from Tenebrous & Aegis and frequently instantly healed/reassembled from being sliced/atomised.
Zoom's done nothing that suggests he would be an obstacle for Surfer.
Originally posted by Golgo13If you don't know enough about the subject we're speaking about, best not try to wrangle an obtuse non-sequitur to combat it. Surfer's blown up planets twice. His fights with Morg and Ravenous. And since you love talking about other Speedforce users rather than Professor Zoom himself, Power Cosmic wielders like Terrax and Stardust have wrecked planets as well in their fights. Heck, Nova blew up a star.
When has Surfer blown up a planet?
Originally posted by Golgo13At this point, you're just moving goalposts. I get you don't want to talk about Surfer's battlefield destruction vs. Professor Zoom running in the air anymore though. I wouldn't want to either as there is absolutely no proof Professor Zoom has done so at all.
When has Surfer stopped someone from a time stop or erasing their existence or a de aging? I'm seeing that Surfer is versatile, but it's not going to protect him from someone on Zoom's level.
But we get it. Somehow we have to assume he could and disregard the number of times opponents have disrupted the footing of speedster runners in comics. Moreover, we have to disregard Surfer's feats of wrecking the battlefield in spectacular fashion against powerful opponents.
This is what makes sense, after all... ?
This is not Jay Garrick and Wally running on air, golgo. Not at all.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/14805650/JLAJSAVV-68.jpg.html
The writer isn't Johns too.
Given that Surfer has existed as a character for 40+ years and battled hundreds of [powerful] opponents, the fact that he has only destroyed a planet twice in his history implies that it is certainly not an 'in character' tactic for him. This thread does not specify "no CIS", after all.
It's a tool in his toolbox, sure-- just not one he's likely to use right out of the gate, imo.
Originally posted by Golgo13
Has he controlled time on Zoom's level?
He really hasn't had to, because let's be honest- time manipulation is a VERY broken power for a hero to have.
But we've seen Surfer roll back his perception of time in his immediate vicinity, travel forwards, backwards, and across(??) time under his own power, warp the fabric of space/time itself, throw an opponent to the end of time mid fight, and evolve/age a planet to death in moments.
It's fair to say there's a LOT that can be done with the PC in regards to time.
Combine that with his cosmic awareness- Surfer will know the extent of Zoom's powers and potential weaknesses immediately. CIS off, there's no way to surprise him, and if there's a way to exploit Zoom's powerset he'll know about it.
I'd give this fight to a well written surfer more often than not.
edit: defensively, surfer is underrated. There's a lot to be said for the ability to go intangible, invisible, submicroscopic or all three during a fight to avoid attacks and plan a strategy.
Originally posted by Galan007
Given that Surfer has existed as a character for 40+ years and battled hundreds of [powerful] opponents, the fact that he has only destroyed a planet twice in his history implies that it is certainly not an 'in character' tactic for him. This thread does not specify "no CIS", after all.It's a tool in his toolbox, sure-- just not one he's likely to use right out of the gate, imo.
I think it has less to do about whether Surfer would do it off the bat rather than "would he eventually do it once he realizes Zoom is kinda hard to hit?".
Stil, it would need him to be pretty desperate and the planet would have to be uninhabited.
Originally posted by Space M ummy
He really hasn't had to, because let's be honest- time manipulation is a VERY broken power for a hero to have.But we've seen Surfer roll back his perception of time in his immediate vicinity, travel forwards, backwards, and across(??) time under his own power, warp the fabric of space/time itself, throw an opponent to the end of time mid fight, and evolve/age a planet to death in moments.
It's fair to say there's a LOT that can be done with the PC in regards to time.
Combine that with his cosmic awareness- Surfer will know the extent of Zoom's powers and potential weaknesses immediately. CIS off, there's no way to surprise him, and if there's a way to exploit Zoom's powerset he'll know about it.
I'd give this fight to a well written surfer more often than not.
edit: defensively, surfer is underrated. There's a lot to be said for the ability to go intangible, invisible, submicroscopic or all three during a fight to avoid attacks and plan a strategy.
Yeah, Surfer is versatile, no doubt, but that doesn't mean he could automatically resit Zoom's time attacks, who has destroyed beings with similar time manipulation. Once Zoom mastered the Anti-Speed Force, he became the most powerful and most dangerous foe Flash had.
Originally posted by Golgo13
Yeah, Surfer is versatile, no doubt, but that doesn't mean he could automatically resit Zoom's time attacks, who has destroyed beings with similar time manipulation. Once Zoom mastered the Anti-Speed Force, he became the most powerful and most dangerous foe Flash had.
Has he ever aged an ageless being before? Surfer doesn't really grow old.
Surfer would more than likely obliterate Zoom before Zoom could "age" Surfer.
Also, Surfer has complete control over his own atoms, how is "age" going to affect him when he can simply - and instantly - reform them into a "younger" version of himself?
There's little that I can see Zoom accomplishing against Surfer.
